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Cal Mgt Blew It Big Time

  • Thread starter Thread starter tie1on
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tie1on

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Posts
186
the ivory tower folks in IAH did fuel hedging, 33percent at 140 dollars, SWA fuel heged at 59 dollars

what a bunch of idiots.

the mgt will try to spin this off to being the pilots fault.

Mgt missed the boat (the whole country) this time. and they call themselves the best in the industry. they have huge egos and no brains. what a bunch of idiots
 
Airtran is in the same boat, I suspect others as well. You will probably see some "special charges" next month for fuel that are probably because of reverse hedge issues. Most companies do not hedge fuel like SWA. SWA can make money when gas is going up and when it is coming down.
 
The main difference between the the two (and Southwest and anybody else for that matter) is that Southwest's fuel hedges were "predictive" and everybody else's were "reactionary". Believe me, fuel hedged at 59 dollars was done long ago - on the positive side the price paid by all airlines for fuel (including Southwest) is trending downward. Don't forget that fuel hedging is done as a "side business" for any airline and the only thing the fuel hedging team has to know from the operational side is the approximate planned fuel usage over a given time....
 
All fuel hedging does is give you a more predictable cost for gas. That way management can plan ahead based on the known fuel cost.

If fuel would have went to $200 their $140 hedge would have been genius. They bet and lost... just as how Southwest would have been stuck paying $59 for fuel if it would have gone down to $20.

Enron bet big on the market and got away from their core businesses. They were riding high for a few years then it all came crashing down. The same could happen to airlines that try to chase fuel hedging too much. There's a reason why Wall Street and airlines are two separate businesses...
 
Mgt missed the boat (the whole country) this time. and they call themselves the best in the industry. they have huge egos and no brains. what a bunch of idiots[/quote]

Funny.. that's what airtran management said about giving up millions of dollars in bonuses while asking for wage concessions..from every labor group. "we will not give up our bonuses, we are the best in the business and we deserve it"!
 
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Go LUV!

All fuel hedging does is give you a more predictable cost for gas. That way management can plan ahead based on the known fuel cost.

If fuel would have went to $200 their $140 hedge would have been genius. They bet and lost... just as how Southwest would have been stuck paying $59 for fuel if it would have gone down to $20.

Enron bet big on the market and got away from their core businesses. They were riding high for a few years then it all came crashing down. The same could happen to airlines that try to chase fuel hedging too much. There's a reason why Wall Street and airlines are two separate businesses...

SWA did not really care since they were in a win win situation. They knew they could make a profit regardless of the price of fuel since they hedged. It's a classy operation and others say well they would not have made a profit if they would not have hedged. They did and the profited! If only others could learn huh?!
 
SWA is a fuel hedging company....

SWA did not really care since they were in a win win situation. They knew they could make a profit regardless of the price of fuel since they hedged. It's a classy operation and others say well they would not have made a profit if they would not have hedged. They did and the profited! If only others could learn huh?!

The difference is SWA is a fuel hedging company that can absorb the loss of running an airline. If fuel stays or lowers the only thing that protects the airlines is that although they lose on the fuel hedges, they win on the lower overall costs, so it really is like the SWA CEO said in an article a few months ago, an airline really can't afford not to hedge.
 
If fuel would have went to $200 their $140 hedge would have been genius. They bet and lost... just as how Southwest would have been stuck paying $59 for fuel if it would have gone down to $20.

Yeah, except in this case, CAL hedged near the 52-week high. This was fear based speculation with little supporting information to make the hedge on.
 
Just flew back from Paris on the 757, we had to change tracks and dispatch sent us new flight plan. The cost for fuel on that trip was $53,000-$54000. That was yesterday and don't remember the exact amount but do remember it was in that range. It was printed on the paper work.
 
I believe this is the article you are referring, notice the date

Incorrect and old news as of yesterday. Here's the new info;


Continental Airlines getting credit card payment
Thursday June 12, 4:22 pm ET
By Adam Schreck, AP Business Writer Continental Airlines to receive $413 million for extended credit card deal with Chase

NEW YORK (AP) -- Continental Airlines Inc. said Thursday it will get a $413 million initial payment under its cobranded credit card deal with Chase Bank USA, adding to the carrier's cash cushion as it prepares to book severance and other charges in the coming months.
The agreement with Chase extends the credit card deal through the end of 2016, Houston-based Continental said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Of the initial payment, $235 million covers the advance purchase of frequent flyer mileage credits.
Continental said it expects to have between $3.2 billion and $3.3 billion on hand at the end of the second quarter.
Including fuel taxes and hedges, the carrier predicted it will spend an average of $3.45 per gallon on fuel this year, and a penny more per gallon during the second quarter.
Airlines try to enter into hedging contracts ahead of time to lock in more favorable rates for the future, but doing so has grown increasingly difficult as the cost of fuel has soared in recent months.
For this quarter, Continental said it has about 20 percent of its fuel needs hedged. The airline has about 43 percent of its fuel needs hedged in the third quarter, and 48 percent in the fourth quarter. Those hedges could be valuable if oil prices rise sharply in the second half of the year -- the biggest bets are on crude oil trading between about $120 and $140 a barrel in the second half of the year.
Early Thursday, light sweet, crude for July delivery was down $1.75 in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange to trade at $134.45.
The carrier reiterated plans to cut 3,000 jobs, but did not spell out which positions would be lost. The expected job cuts represent about 6.5 percent of the company's work force of 45,000.
Continental last week said it would slash capacity by 11 percent, and retire 67 Boeing 737-300 and 737-500 planes by the end of 2009.
The downsizing is expected to result in potentially large accounting charges related to planes and spare parts, severance costs, contract termination costs and other expenses. Continental said Thursday it "is not able at this time to estimate the amount and timing of these charges."
For the next six weeks, Continental said it is "comfortable" with its forward bookings and expects demand will "remain solid throughout the summer."
While domestic and Latin American bookings over the next six weeks are running higher than at this time last year, trans-Atlantic bookings are down 2 to 3 percentage points and bookings to Asia are running 4 to 5 points behind last year. Profit margins are typically wider on international routes than on domestic ones. Continental Airlines shares rose 39 cents, or 3.2 percent, to $12.49.
 
Just flew back from Paris on the 757, we had to change tracks and dispatch sent us new flight plan. The cost for fuel on that trip was $53,000-$54000. That was yesterday and don't remember the exact amount but do remember it was in that range. It was printed on the paper work.

Hardly accurate to estimate fuel cost for the said flight. It also considers crew cost and overflight charges.

On the bright side, now it's turning out EWR has one of the highest fuel station. Therefore tankering into EWR often shows benefit. This is a good trend to reduce the amount of diversions on domestic flights.
 
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From what I understand you can only hedge as much as your credit will allow.

Us Air has C credit for example, they can only hedge out fuel for 1 year. Whereas SWA has A credit and they can hedge out for 5 years.
 
From what I understand you can only hedge as much as your credit will allow.

Us Air has C credit for example, they can only hedge out fuel for 1 year. Whereas SWA has A credit and they can hedge out for 5 years.

You can Hedge all you want you just have to pay for the hedge at the time it was issue....You can get the cash via credit or by raping your employees of their pay.
 

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