AirTran Posted Furlough List...a.k.a TBD with a notice to follow

[CoolSidePillow]

A union is a union is a unions is a union. A lot of you jack offs do not even vote on things when they do come up and you have senior captains like that guy B. Love that will still pick up open time with guys on the street. What difference what banner you fly when you are all too chicken sh*t to wave it. I hate everyone. Rednecks.

 

[Nindiri]

What's the deal with the short and long term LOA's? Some 25 requests and only 5 approved? We gave concessions for this?

 

[XRMEFLYER]

A union is a union is a unions is a union. A lot of you jack offs do not even vote on things when they do come up and you have senior captains like that guy B. Love that will still pick up open time with guys on the street. What difference what banner you fly when you are all too chicken sh*t to wave it. I hate everyone. Rednecks.

I rarely agree with anything this oxygen thief has to say, but am in complete agreement on this one. Changing the name on the stickers will have NO impact whatsoever until some people grow a set and decide they have had enough.

 

[Lear70]

What's the deal with the short and long term LOA's? Some 25 requests and only 5 approved? We gave concessions for this?

Yeah, that got my attention, too.

If the company doesn't accept Leaves, from more senior and, therefore, higher-paid employees, what does that say about whether they will furlough AT ALL?

If they DO furlough, what does it say about the duration of the furloughs?

If they furlough long-term, what does that say to the employee group that they turned down people who were wanting to do something else for the time being and put guys and gals out on the street without other options in the (arguably) worst hiring environment in history?

And we gave an LOA for that??

Must be above my pay grade...

 

[MILPILOT17]

A union is a union is a unions is a union. A lot of you jack offs do not even vote on things when they do come up and you have senior captains like that guy B. Love that will still pick up open time with guys on the street. What difference what banner you fly when you are all too chicken sh*t to wave it. I hate everyone. Rednecks.

Put the pilots with the highest line numbers (lowest seniority) in charge of the unions; problem solved! Until you can make that happen, good luck? Doesn't sound like any of the senior pilots that represent your unions give a damn about the junior guys.

 

[maxblast72]

Does anyone know whether the leave requests were denied or did the pilots that requested them change their mind after finding out the details?

With the terms of the LOA and the slowing economy, some people may have decided not to leave the property. Also, I think only 1 guy that could hold Captain didn't opt to stay as Captain on the involuntary bid.

 

[Nindiri]

Crew planning told me that they were still processing the LOA's and would publish them by Monday. Could be true, or they may have just told me that to get me off the telephone. Who knows?

 

[Andy]

Don't get too depressed yet. That list does still say "TBD." There's always the possibility that they don't go ahead with the furloughs.

Wake up and smell the java.
The economy's going down the crapper. Vacation plans are getting slashed. Business travel budgets are getting cut.

AAI's already done a death spiral financing deal so there's no means for them to raise money short of selling any and all assets that have more value than what's owed on them. Hence the 737s being sold. And here's the kicker - demand for aircraft is falling off a cliff. Pretty soon, new and used aircraft will be going for a LOT less than what's owed on them.

Take a look at AAI's route structure. Notice how many flights are in and out of MCO? Do you really think that domestic traffic to MCO is not going to crater?

AAI is no less immune from major cutbacks than any other airline.

 

[Lear70]

I believe the economy is about bottomed out.

Oil is heading back down, just like we said it would after 4th of July, and will likely drop even further after Labor Day, settling somewhere between $100-$110 a Brl, which is livable, as long as the fare increases stay put or go up just a little bit at a time, slowly, each few months.

People will still vacation. Actually, MCO vacations, cruises, and such, are still a good value and will probably remain popular, with airfares not having gone up NEARLY as much as they should.

AAI will survive just fine. They will pull down the flying in Sep and Oct, but it will ramp back up in Nov and Dec like it always does. If they furlough in the numbers they've initially put out, they won't have the staff to cover for Christmas and it'll be another 2006 meltdown.

 

[Andy]

I believe the economy is about bottomed out.

Not even close. Default rates for older vintage home mortgages (2002/3) are on the rise. We're not nearly done with the housing problems. The actions taken by government are merely delaying the inevitable, along with increasing the government's level of debt.
We are now seeing big slowdowns from the rest of the world's economies. Europe has been slowing down for a while. India is about to implode. China will implode within the next 6 months.

Yes, oil is dropping in price. All the way down to $115/bbl; not exactly inexpensive. Due to demand destruction. A drop in oil prices isn't going to revive the world's economy; the huge debt levels and tightening credit standards are what's killing the world economy.
... don't be surprised to see banks require a 20% down payment on mortgages in the future. That action alone will kill the economy for several more years.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Andy always doom and gloom on aai I love is death spiral he use that one everytime

 

[Andy]

Andy always doom and gloom on aai I love is death spiral he use that one everytime

It's not specific to AAI. I'm negative on the airline industry in general.
Just because I refuse to wear rose colored glasses does not mean that I'm gloom and doom. I'm tired of eternal optimists labeling realistic assessments as gloom and doom. You want to live in a fantasy world? Cool. Not all of us choose to live that way.
As for the death spiral financing, I had an entire discussion on that back in May. It is the correct terminology for the structure of the financing that AAI used.

 

[momalley81]

... don't be surprised to see banks require a 20% down payment on mortgages in the future. That action alone will kill the economy for several more years.

The banks are already requiring 20% down.

 

[Cornelius]

Aren't your fall schedules out at Air Tran, if so then consider yourself furloughed if your number is up. No disrespect since i'm at F9 furloughed Sept 1st. If I'm missing something here tell me, I just figured if the schedules are built and you only need a certain amount of pilots then things are figured out for pilot staffing.

 

[Lear70]

Aren't your fall schedules out at Air Tran, if so then consider yourself furloughed if your number is up. No disrespect since i'm at F9 furloughed Sept 1st. If I'm missing something here tell me, I just figured if the schedules are built and you only need a certain amount of pilots then things are figured out for pilot staffing.

That's the problem. AAI is keeping them on the hook.

It doesn't say "Furloughed", it says "TBD" - To Be Determined. The company refuses to tell them one way or another. Pretty f'in rude... holding onto people's lives like that.

Andy, I respectfully disagree with you on this one.

The mortgage rescues will help quite a few people stuck in sub-prime lending circles to keep their homes under new fixed-rate lending. My family's in real estate, and estimates foreclosures dropping 40-60%. Not salvation, but certainly a good start.

FHA and VA loans have always been 3% down. That hasn't changed. WITH proper credit (750 beacon scores, PROVABLE income, PROPER debt-to-income ratios). People can still buy, just not as many and everyone is scared as hell of overextending again. That's a healthy thing.

That's why I think we're nearing bottom. Will it recover quickly? No freaking way. You're absolutely right about the greater problems in credit arenas, spending, international debt, etc. We have our work cut out for us, and it's going to take the next 3-5 years to get there.

But I don't think it will get worse... Could be wrong, it's happened before.