AirTran Posted Furlough List...a.k.a TBD with a notice to follow

[rhino3040]

The "What if?" Award was posted today with the list of the many pilots that will be TBD a.k.a furloughed. I drank the kool aid in training thinking I was making a great career advancement, instead I got a kick in the stomach along with the frowns of my family. Thanks AirTran for everything that you have done. I appreciate it!

 

[PCL_128]

Don't get too depressed yet. That list does still say "TBD." There's always the possibility that they don't go ahead with the furloughs.

 

[rhino3040]

Don't get too depressed yet. That list does still say "TBD." There's always the possibility that they don't go ahead with the furloughs.

I Hope your right man! I have been working my arse off for the last 3-4 months being on reserve....I would really hate to work hard just to get the boot. Trying to stay positive! Anyone else hear anything looming among the Airtran rumors?

 

[FIREMAN]

The "What if?" Award was posted today with the list of the many pilots that will be TBD a.k.a furloughed. I drank the kool aid in training thinking I was making a great career advancement, instead I got a kick in the stomach along with the frowns of my family. Thanks AirTran for everything that you have done. I appreciate it!

Welcome to the airline biz. Sorry you drank the kool aid. No airline or any other company can see the future. I am sure at the time they were feeding you the kool aid they belived it too.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

It is not the furlough that has me so upset. It is all the other stuff.

-Management Attempting to violate the contract to fire probationary employees

-Managements Attempt to fire employee that put up petition for MEMRAT and the unions very weak position on getting the current hostages back on property

-WEAK LOAs that do not give me much confidence in any future TAs

-A union in total self destruct including infighting and possible moles being escorted off property by police.

-A management with total contempt for its employee group

-An employee group that seems to have Stockholm syndrome.

 

[rhino3040]

It is not the furlough that has me so upset. It is all the other stuff.

-Management Attempting to violate the contract to fire probationary employees

-Managements Attempt to fire employee that put up petition for MEMRAT and the unions very weak position on getting the current hostages back on property

-WEAK LOAs that do not give me much confidence in any future TAs

-A union in total self destruct including infighting and possible moles being escorted off property by police.

-A management with total contempt for its employee group

-An employee group that seems to have Stockholm syndrome.

I agree that the union just decided ON THERE OWN!!!!!!!!!!! to sign the LOA in regards to save the training department and to save us from being fired. But why doesnt the union just "grow a pair" and take the chance that management would really have the guts to fire in the first place. I agree all the above is just the icing on the cake. I guess lets just wait and find out what actually the content of being contacted means.

 

[FIREMAN]

I think FL is selling and deferring B737 aircraft because they are working a deal with TPG for the B717s. The TBA on the reduction notice allows them more time to put the deal together. Then if it falls through they can go ahead and furlough. Does Northwest give up any influence as to the disposition of Midwest?

 

[rhino3040]

I think FL is selling and deferring B737 aircraft because they are working a deal with TPG for the B717s. The TBA on the reduction notice allows them more time to put the deal together. Then if it falls through they can go ahead and furlough. Does Northwest give up any influence as to the disposition of Midwest?

A great rumor and a rumor at that. Hopefully that will rescue us.

 

[Flybywire44]

Could someone share the deets on this "list?" How many pilots are on the block and up to what hire date?

I'm keeping you guys in mind.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Up to September 07 right now. It was a preliminary list and the final list will be on the 11th. But who knows when they will finally put out the final furlough list.

 

[Capt. Kramer]

Don't get too depressed yet. That list does still say "TBD." There's always the possibility that they don't go ahead with the furloughs.

Why doesn't anyone think this will happen?

 

[RLAblows]

What does TBD stand for, to be determined? If so, it seems like we are still in the same position before the "award." Maybe we'll furlough, or maybe not. The BS continues by this management. If you look at all the displacements it should cost the company big dollars to retrain everyone in their respective equipment. Seems like a waste if the schedule reduction is only for Sep. and Oct and back to normal November. I too, am very dissapointed with this company and their "regional" mentality.

 

[zman]

I say we get a union that can fight, a union like Alpa where if you have the right unified pilot group can make a diff.

 

[CFIT]

I say we get a union that can fight, a union like Alpa where if you have the right unified pilot group can make a diff.

I don't care who you are, that's some funny stuff right there.

Are you kidding?

 

[PCL_128]

I don't care who you are, that's some funny stuff right there.

Are you kidding?

No, he's not. You really don't understand how screwed up things are over here with this union. No matter what your opinion of ALPA, pretty much anything is better than what we've got.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

A union is a union is a unions is a union. A lot of you jack offs do not even vote on things when they do come up and you have senior captains like that guy B. Love that will still pick up open time with guys on the street. What difference what banner you fly when you are all too chicken sh*t to wave it. I hate everyone. Rednecks.

 

[Nindiri]

What's the deal with the short and long term LOA's? Some 25 requests and only 5 approved? We gave concessions for this?

 

[XRMEFLYER]

A union is a union is a unions is a union. A lot of you jack offs do not even vote on things when they do come up and you have senior captains like that guy B. Love that will still pick up open time with guys on the street. What difference what banner you fly when you are all too chicken sh*t to wave it. I hate everyone. Rednecks.

I rarely agree with anything this oxygen thief has to say, but am in complete agreement on this one. Changing the name on the stickers will have NO impact whatsoever until some people grow a set and decide they have had enough.

 

[Lear70]

What's the deal with the short and long term LOA's? Some 25 requests and only 5 approved? We gave concessions for this?

Yeah, that got my attention, too.

If the company doesn't accept Leaves, from more senior and, therefore, higher-paid employees, what does that say about whether they will furlough AT ALL?

If they DO furlough, what does it say about the duration of the furloughs?

If they furlough long-term, what does that say to the employee group that they turned down people who were wanting to do something else for the time being and put guys and gals out on the street without other options in the (arguably) worst hiring environment in history?

And we gave an LOA for that??

Must be above my pay grade...

 

[MILPILOT17]

A union is a union is a unions is a union. A lot of you jack offs do not even vote on things when they do come up and you have senior captains like that guy B. Love that will still pick up open time with guys on the street. What difference what banner you fly when you are all too chicken sh*t to wave it. I hate everyone. Rednecks.

Put the pilots with the highest line numbers (lowest seniority) in charge of the unions; problem solved! Until you can make that happen, good luck? Doesn't sound like any of the senior pilots that represent your unions give a damn about the junior guys.

 

[maxblast72]

Does anyone know whether the leave requests were denied or did the pilots that requested them change their mind after finding out the details?

With the terms of the LOA and the slowing economy, some people may have decided not to leave the property. Also, I think only 1 guy that could hold Captain didn't opt to stay as Captain on the involuntary bid.

 

[Nindiri]

Crew planning told me that they were still processing the LOA's and would publish them by Monday. Could be true, or they may have just told me that to get me off the telephone. Who knows?

 

[Andy]

Don't get too depressed yet. That list does still say "TBD." There's always the possibility that they don't go ahead with the furloughs.

Wake up and smell the java.
The economy's going down the crapper. Vacation plans are getting slashed. Business travel budgets are getting cut.

AAI's already done a death spiral financing deal so there's no means for them to raise money short of selling any and all assets that have more value than what's owed on them. Hence the 737s being sold. And here's the kicker - demand for aircraft is falling off a cliff. Pretty soon, new and used aircraft will be going for a LOT less than what's owed on them.

Take a look at AAI's route structure. Notice how many flights are in and out of MCO? Do you really think that domestic traffic to MCO is not going to crater?

AAI is no less immune from major cutbacks than any other airline.

 

[Lear70]

I believe the economy is about bottomed out.

Oil is heading back down, just like we said it would after 4th of July, and will likely drop even further after Labor Day, settling somewhere between $100-$110 a Brl, which is livable, as long as the fare increases stay put or go up just a little bit at a time, slowly, each few months.

People will still vacation. Actually, MCO vacations, cruises, and such, are still a good value and will probably remain popular, with airfares not having gone up NEARLY as much as they should.

AAI will survive just fine. They will pull down the flying in Sep and Oct, but it will ramp back up in Nov and Dec like it always does. If they furlough in the numbers they've initially put out, they won't have the staff to cover for Christmas and it'll be another 2006 meltdown.

 

[Andy]

I believe the economy is about bottomed out.

Not even close. Default rates for older vintage home mortgages (2002/3) are on the rise. We're not nearly done with the housing problems. The actions taken by government are merely delaying the inevitable, along with increasing the government's level of debt.
We are now seeing big slowdowns from the rest of the world's economies. Europe has been slowing down for a while. India is about to implode. China will implode within the next 6 months.

Yes, oil is dropping in price. All the way down to $115/bbl; not exactly inexpensive. Due to demand destruction. A drop in oil prices isn't going to revive the world's economy; the huge debt levels and tightening credit standards are what's killing the world economy.
... don't be surprised to see banks require a 20% down payment on mortgages in the future. That action alone will kill the economy for several more years.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Andy always doom and gloom on aai I love is death spiral he use that one everytime

 

[Andy]

Andy always doom and gloom on aai I love is death spiral he use that one everytime

It's not specific to AAI. I'm negative on the airline industry in general.
Just because I refuse to wear rose colored glasses does not mean that I'm gloom and doom. I'm tired of eternal optimists labeling realistic assessments as gloom and doom. You want to live in a fantasy world? Cool. Not all of us choose to live that way.
As for the death spiral financing, I had an entire discussion on that back in May. It is the correct terminology for the structure of the financing that AAI used.

 

[momalley81]

... don't be surprised to see banks require a 20% down payment on mortgages in the future. That action alone will kill the economy for several more years.

The banks are already requiring 20% down.

 

[Cornelius]

Aren't your fall schedules out at Air Tran, if so then consider yourself furloughed if your number is up. No disrespect since i'm at F9 furloughed Sept 1st. If I'm missing something here tell me, I just figured if the schedules are built and you only need a certain amount of pilots then things are figured out for pilot staffing.

 

[Lear70]

Aren't your fall schedules out at Air Tran, if so then consider yourself furloughed if your number is up. No disrespect since i'm at F9 furloughed Sept 1st. If I'm missing something here tell me, I just figured if the schedules are built and you only need a certain amount of pilots then things are figured out for pilot staffing.

That's the problem. AAI is keeping them on the hook.

It doesn't say "Furloughed", it says "TBD" - To Be Determined. The company refuses to tell them one way or another. Pretty f'in rude... holding onto people's lives like that.

Andy, I respectfully disagree with you on this one.

The mortgage rescues will help quite a few people stuck in sub-prime lending circles to keep their homes under new fixed-rate lending. My family's in real estate, and estimates foreclosures dropping 40-60%. Not salvation, but certainly a good start.

FHA and VA loans have always been 3% down. That hasn't changed. WITH proper credit (750 beacon scores, PROVABLE income, PROPER debt-to-income ratios). People can still buy, just not as many and everyone is scared as hell of overextending again. That's a healthy thing.

That's why I think we're nearing bottom. Will it recover quickly? No freaking way. You're absolutely right about the greater problems in credit arenas, spending, international debt, etc. We have our work cut out for us, and it's going to take the next 3-5 years to get there.

But I don't think it will get worse... Could be wrong, it's happened before.