DAL & NWA JPWA Vote

[Occam's Razor]

See? There's something else I need to learn about Delta. At Delta, "Positive Space" means you go ahead of other non-revs.

At Northwest, it means...um...positive space.

 

[jonjuan]

Yeah...that'll solve any revenue problems!

Bump paying pax so you can live in East MommyTown.

*chortle*

Why not? The fractionals do it and it appears to be one of the better parts of their contracts.

 

[Noserider76]

Anyone have additional perspectives? I'm earnestly curious what Delta and Northwest pilots think.

We gave up the chance to open Section 6 next year with LOA 19. The JPWA gives us a 4 year+ deal with payraises that barely keep up with inflation must less recapturing anything lost in the blood bath leading up to BK. As you mentioned there is no real fix on scope and the chances of a DL west coast domestic operation look slim to none with the Alaska codeshare. Many look at this as our last chance to have any leverage with management. The combined company may be too big to have any credible strike threat. If we vote it down because it didn't meet our expectations for the next contract though, we're the A holes. No need for that though because NWA will almost certainly get their own LOA 19 while both sides work on a new JPWA.

I've heard people say we're lucky to be getting anything from the merger. I think that misses the point that if this passes we've basically signed our next contract here a little over a year early at one of the worst times for the aviation industry.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Why not? The fractionals do it and it appears to be one of the better parts of their contracts.

The fractionals bump paying pax from their own aircraft to accommodate commuting pilots?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Positive space at DL means positive space just like it does at NW. I don't know what the other guy was talking about.

He was probably talking about an S1 or so (like an F1 at NWA).

Another DL nicety about nonrevving.. there is no F or Y nonrev priority. On any level of pass, if there are first class seats open and youre the next NRSA on the list, then you get a first class seat.

 

[KCPilot]

SLI before JPWA!

 

[NuGuy]

SLI before JPWA!

Ummm, I think these guys tried it that way:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=115406

Sounds like a good plan for success to me!

Nu

 

[NuGuy]

The fractionals bump paying pax from their own aircraft to accommodate commuting pilots?

Heyas Occam,

I think ACL is just talking about something similar to our own Call In Honest.

Have 2 flights. If you aren't going to make the 2nd, call, and you get a positive space to work (if they need you).

Nu

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Heyas Occam,

I think ACL is just talking about something similar to our own Call In Honest.

Have 2 flights. If you aren't going to make the 2nd, call, and you get a positive space to work (if they need you).

Nu

DL's CIH is exactly that.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Heyas Occam,

I think ACL is just talking about something similar to our own Call In Honest.

Have 2 flights. If you aren't going to make the 2nd, call, and you get a positive space to work (if they need you).

Nu

He was replying to JonJuan who was trying to equate fracs tickets on airlines to airline guys bumping pax on their own airline (read: argument did not follow)

As far as the positive space thing....it is so convoluted from one airline to the next (at some it means the employee on company business is MUST RIDE (bumps pax), on others positive space on means you positively get a seat ONLY if one is available (after all paying pax), and if so, you'd go ahead of non revs. This is especially screwed up when the flight cancels, and then there are NO seats avail for say 3 days. These deviations from airline to airline are also applied at the whim of gate agents who don't even understand their own airline's policy, so will tell people the least desirable definition du jour of "positive space."

As far as the voting thing...Is there some reason I can't see that would prevent both groups from voting yes to immediately get the ball rolling and make some improvements, then go after a side letter or something for other issues? Seems like it makes sense in this environment to grab what you can, and you whatever leverages come from the success of the "new deal" to negotiate more. Why all or nothing if you can make what seems like good improvements now? Not getting it....

 

[filejw]

Yeah...that'll solve any revenue problems!

Bump paying pax so you can live in East MommyTown.

*chortle*

Most DAL type don't commute so its not a priority for them. I've commuted for 29 yrs and i still remember some place on the employment application it said are you willing to relocate ? I never wanted somebody else to pay for my decision not to live in a base. It was/is our choice to commute.

 

[cessnapilot]

Most DAL type don't commute so its not a priority for them. I've commuted for 29 yrs and i still remember some place on the employment application it said are you willing to relocate ? I never wanted somebody else to pay for my decision not to live in a base. It was/is our choice to commute.

that might have worked 30 years ago, but now people come from their 5th airline and somewhere along the way they put in roots. Once kids are in school and roots are in, its harder to move... not to mention the fact that airlines open and close bases with little financial impact (on the pilot side) since pilots can commute to the new base. Nobody is paying for your decision not to live in base... give me a break... this is the industry today.

 

[ugasucks]

Vote No!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I would like to see commuting folks get the ability to talk open seats a few days out for their commute to work. IE it aint sold so the commuters can turn them in to positive space seats for their trip TO work. (We are going to have a lot of people moving around in the next few years). Not bumping revenue. Just putting you a head of my family trying to go on vacation. Personally I buy tickets with our 20% discount. It is a lot easier on the Mrs. to know that she is getting a seat on a flight next to the kiddo anyway.
We do have a call in honest program, just like yours. We also have had a few base closures that have been very difficult for people. DFW left a lot of people out there with families that could not move. One of the gate agents told me that there will still 4K commuters out of there. When the stuff hits the fan many people do not make it to work. Not so good.

 

[rtmcfi]

Most DAL type don't commute so its not a priority for them. I've commuted for 29 yrs and i still remember some place on the employment application it said are you willing to relocate ? I never wanted somebody else to pay for my decision not to live in a base. It was/is our choice to commute.

All commuters stop going to work tomorrow. See what happens to the airline. Make living in domecile a requirement with todays wages/qol. See what happens. Here is a clue..... chaos. Airlines depend on commuters to exist. As such, a positive space ticket to work is not an unreasonable request.