C Series Update, NWA was looking at it before merger

[~~~^~~~]

On a slow news day...

NWA was interested.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/14/business/14air.php?WT.mc_id=glob_mrktg_lnk2&WT.mc_ev=click

 

[johnsonrod]

On a slow news day...

NWA was interested.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/14/business/14air.php?WT.mc_id=glob_mrktg_lnk2&WT.mc_ev=click

I presume they were looking at it as a Diesel 9 replacement. Well, the new Delta will be using Diesel 9s as well, so, perhaps there will still be some interest... Let's hope!

 

[Superpilot92]

I wouldnt be surprised to just see more 737 ordered in the future as an eventual DC9 replacement. Unless the new C-series is really efficient and DAL is impressed with it. We'll see.

 

[FDJ2]

I wouldnt be surprised to just see more 737 ordered in the future as an eventual DC9 replacement. Unless the new C-series is really efficient and DAL is impressed with it. We'll see.

The DC-9, with it's 100-127 seats, fills the gap between the 76 seat RJ and the 142 seat MD-88 until the next generation hundred seater arrives, much like the old DAL 737-200s did. Maybe the C series, maybe the E195 will be it's replacement, not a 150 seat 737. The other possibility is to replace them with more 76 seaters and backfill with A319s and MD-88s as needed until a suitable 100 seat replacement aircraft arrives.

 

[Fly4hire]

The DC-9, with it's 100-127 seats, fills the gap between the 76 seat RJ and the 142 seat MD-88 until the next generation hundred seater arrives, much like the old DAL 737-200s did. Maybe the C series, maybe the E195 will be it's replacement, not a 150 seat 737. The other possibility is to replace them with more 76 seaters and backfill with A319s and MD-88s as needed until a suitable 100 seat replacement aircraft arrives.

I thought the JPWA essentially capped the current number of 76 seater's limiting (I hope) that scenario?

We need to keep as much of that flying in-house as our combined MEC's are able to. I don't care if it's a 100 seat DC3 so long as we don't lose more ground to the feeders.

Also know a few folks flying the E175 - not particularly impressed with the build quality - sort of like a Taurus compared to a Boeing's S&W. Also the cabin is smaller still than a MD/DC series and with half the overhead space. The 320 cabin is waaaay nicer than the MD/DC's.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fly4hire:

Wish we were getting the E175's on the property by stapling Compass. I do not know why our Reps have not taken advantage of the opportunity presented by SLI.

FDJ2:

You are exactly right. The 76 seaters that are coming will backfill, along with the A319's.

What most folks are overlooking is that the 737-700 is a 757 replacement to some degree. The 757's are headed to the desert instead of the maintenance shop.

Superpilot:

I think Delta will wait and learn more about the new engines and new airframe before making a commitment. The E175/E190 did not turn out as good as planned and it had a lot of derivative tech. The C Series will have a new and untried engine with a possibly tempermental gearbox, a new airframe and a Parker Hannifin fly by wire system based on F22 and F35 technology.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. A lot of jobs will eventually be effected. IMHO this is a bigger deal than the 787, based on numbers and employment.

I hope ALPA doesn't trade it away. They have an excellent opportunity to put the E175 & did not even ask the question. That tells me something.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The 320 cabin is waaaay nicer than the MD/DC's.

4 or 5 across? IMHO the DC9/MD88 is nicer than the 737. The new seats are hard as concrete and have the dreaded middle seat. I'd rather be back in the "enchanted grotto" by the C4 compressor disk than anywhere in the aft cabin on a 737.

The 73NG is a nice airplane, just uncomfortable in back, IMHO.

 

[Superpilot92]

The DC-9, with it's 100-127 seats, fills the gap between the 76 seat RJ and the 142 seat MD-88 until the next generation hundred seater arrives, much like the old DAL 737-200s did. Maybe the C series, maybe the E195 will be it's replacement, not a 150 seat 737. The other possibility is to replace them with more 76 seaters and backfill with A319s and MD-88s as needed until a suitable 100 seat replacement aircraft arrives.

I thought the new 737-700's were coming with 124 seats? If so thats the same number as the DC9-50's.

 

[701EV]

Fly4hire:

Wish we were getting the E175's on the property by stapling Compass. I do not know why our Reps have not taken advantage of the opportunity presented by SLI.

Fins,

You know why they didn't take advantage the opportunity? It's the same reason they didn't do it in the summer of 2000. When are you going to take control over their? They need someone who can see 20 years down the road like you.

How are things going? Been meaning to call you to do lunch. Haven't been to the Rib Ranch in a while.

701EV

 

[Fly4hire]

4 or 5 across? IMHO the DC9/MD88 is nicer than the 737. The new seats are hard as concrete and have the dreaded middle seat. I'd rather be back in the "enchanted grotto" by the C4 compressor disk than anywhere in the aft cabin on a 737.

The 73NG is a nice airplane, just uncomfortable in back, IMHO.

3+3, aisle wide enough to roll a Purdy Neat in coach. Seats wider than on the MD/DC's

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins,

You know why they didn't take advantage the opportunity? It's the same reason they didn't do it in the summer of 2000.

701EV

Please don't get me started.

Here's a better waste of time

http://www.greaseman.org/sounds/irvins/01-10 - Six Minute Workout.mp3http://www.greaseman.org/sounds/best_of/212-SixMinuteWorkout.mp3

 

[FDJ2]

I thought the new 737-700's were coming with 124 seats? If so thats the same number as the DC9-50's.

The new 737-700s are coming to serve high altitude airports requiring higher performance, such as Bogota 8360' and Quito 9228'. I'm not sure if that is necessarily the same market as the DC-9.

 

[~~~^~~~]

............

 

[Superpilot92]

The new 737-700s are coming to serve high altitude airports requiring higher performance, such as Bogota 8360' and Quito 9228'. I'm not sure if that is necessarily the same market as the DC-9.

I didnt say the same market i said same number of seats But none the less it could be used in the same markets.

DAL keeps saying they like the -9 because of the cheap cost of ownership and lets hope they keep these things flying. They really do a great job on the short haul 100 seat markets. It seems they really want to use them to put more pressure on airtran. We'll see

 

[General Lee]

The new 737-700s are coming to serve high altitude airports requiring higher performance, such as Bogota 8360' and Quito 9228'. I'm not sure if that is necessarily the same market as the DC-9.

Well, not always high altitude airports. The 737-700s start next month at SNA, flying to CVG and the allnighter to ATL. But there will be other special airports that will use it's capabilities, like LGA to Vail (EGE) and possibly more cities in Latin America like Tegucigalpa.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Diesel-9]

I still think somehow, and someday you will see 50-75 B-717's replace the -9's. Differences training, and perfect for all the short runways it can haul 100 pax and all the cargo into.

 

[FDJ2]

Well, not always high altitude airports. The 737-700s start next month at SNA, flying to CVG and the allnighter to ATL. But there will be other special airports that will use it's capabilities, like LGA to Vail (EGE) and possibly more cities in Latin America like Tegucigalpa.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Exactly, it won't be limited to Bogota, Quito, but generally speaking the aircraft will be flying longer legs and into special airports.

 

[FDJ2]

I didnt say the same market i said same number of seats But none the less it could be used in the same markets.

I hear what you are saying, but it's a costly replacement for that type of flying when compared to other alternatives, such as buying inexpensive after market Mad Dogs, or utilizing a combination of 76 seat RJs, 319s and 88s. A new 700 costs significantly more than a MD88/90, the 700s advantage is its performance, longer range and high/hot capabilities. It seems like a waste of talent to use it for ATL-SAV turns.

DAL keeps saying they like the -9 because of the cheap cost of ownership and lets hope they keep these things flying. They really do a great job on the short haul 100 seat markets. It seems they really want to use them to put more pressure on airtran. We'll see

I believe the merger will actually cause the 9s to stick around a short period longer than without the merger. One DC-9 can do the same job as 2 RJ50s. Instead of 2 RJs feeding two different hubs, you can utilize 1 DC-9 to feed 1 hub.

The big threat that I see down the road will be that the company will push for a 100 seater, such as the E-195 at Compass in the next round of negotiations. We can't allow that.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am glad that you feel that way FDJ2.
Scope is the single biggest threat to the mainline profession.
Those Jets need to be at mainline.
I addition to that, Compass needs to be on our list. Doing this will reverse the trend that has been unchecked for the last 15 years.

 

[Fly4hire]

The big threat that I see down the road will be that the company will push for a 100 seater, such as the E-195 at Compass in the next round of negotiations. We can't allow that.

Of course they will try. I hope that we aren't so enamored of the Intl flying that we fail to protect the 70 seat threshold at all costs.

Think where our collective careers at the legacies would be today if we had held the line at 50 seat's?

Give away 100 seats and we may as well give away all domestic flying......

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Also give away 777's with code share and you give away the golden egg. We must protect scope at both ends of our business.

 

[Superpilot92]

JUST SAY NO TO FURTHER SCOPE RELAXATION!! The majority of pilots seem to have figured out after the last round of scope F-Ups that giving up scope is a BAD idea. Lets hope that crowd continues to grow.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It's not just the crowed, but the MEC as well.

 

[vprMatrix]

JUST SAY NO TO FURTHER SCOPE RELAXATION!! The majority of pilots seem to have figured out after the last round of scope F-Ups that giving up scope is a BAD idea. Lets hope that crowd continues to grow.

This is the best reason to vote down the joint contract. Further scope reductions that will last for four more years and a yet to be determined minimum aircraft floor at NW. We just can't keep giving. At very least Compass should be getting all future 76 seat aircraft and/or stapeled.

 

[Superpilot92]

The new 737-700s are coming to serve high altitude airports requiring higher performance, such as Bogota 8360' and Quito 9228'. I'm not sure if that is necessarily the same market as the DC-9.

On a related note,

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/Boeing-737-732/1372430/L/

 

[DYLIN]

Compass

Staple that thing, baby! Do it NOW!

 

[FDJ2]

On a related note,

[URL="http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/Boeing-737-732/1372430/L/"]http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/Boeing-737-732/1372430/L/[/URL]

Delta Air Lines Gets Ready for a Grand Entrance Into Tegucigalpa With a Brand-New Boeing 737-700
Tuesday July 22, 2:20 pm ET
New daily nonstop service between Atlanta and Honduras' capital city starts Dec. 18, 2008
ATLANTA, July 22, 2008 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE:DAL - News) will launch the first-ever nonstop daily flights between Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport and Toncontin Airport in Honduras' capital city of Tegucigalpa, starting Dec. 18, 2008.* The new flights will be operated using brand-new Boeing 737-700 aircraft being delivered to Delta this year that will allow the addition of service at unique airports such as Tegucigalpa with short runways, extreme temperatures and high altitudes.
``We've been looking forward to flying into Tegucigalpa for a long time, and the brand-new 737-700 aircraft makes it possible, complementing the long list of Central American destinations Delta serves,'' said Delta's Christophe Didier, vice president of Sales and Government Affairs for Latin America and the Caribbean. ``Our flights to San Pedro Sula and Roatan have consistently performed well, and we are immensely optimistic to see Tegucigalpa become a great addition to our Honduras service.''
Delta inaugurated service to San Pedro Sula and Roatan in March 2006. Delta's schedule between Atlanta and Tegucigalpa starting Dec. 18,2008: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Flight Departs Arrives Frequency --------------------------------------------------------------------- 551 Atlanta at 9:40 a.m. Tegucigalpa at 12:15 p.m. Daily --------------------------------------------------------------------- 552 Tegucigalpa at 1:05 p.m. Atlanta at 5:40 p.m. Daily ---------------------------------------------------------------------
In celebration of the new Atlanta-Tegucigalpa service, Delta is offering customers a special one-way introductory fare of $329** for travel between Jan. 5 and March 31, 2009. Round-trip ticket purchase required. Tickets must be purchased by Aug. 4, 2008. Additional taxes/fees/restrictions/baggage charges may apply. Details are included below. The new flight to Tegucigalpa is part of Delta's ongoing international expansion, of which Latin America is a key component. Delta also will start flights between New York-JFK and Buenos Aires*, Argentina (Dec. 18); New York-JFK and Bonaire (Dec. 20); and Atlanta and Santiago de los Caballeros, Dominican Republic (Dec. 20). With the additional service to Tegucigalpa, Delta will offer over 340 weekly nonstop flights to more than 50 destinations across Latin America and the Caribbean from the airline's largest Latin gateway at Atlanta.

 

[~~~^~~~]

On a related note,

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/Boeing-737-732/1372430/L/

Dig the blue wheel covers. Wonder if I can get a set for my Ford truck?

This will help Delta in Latin America. ATL makes a better and more direct hub than MIA does. As time goes on AA and DAL will be increasingly competitive.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Staple that thing, baby! Do it NOW!

If it is ever going to be done NOW is the opportunity to take some flying back to mainline & get the type on the property.

Maybe FDJ2, or someone better informed than I, can explain why we have decided not to pursue this.

I'm very impressed with Delta's MEC, but frustrated that scope is nt a higher priority.

 

[Fly4hire]

If it is ever going to be done NOW is the opportunity to take some flying back to mainline & get the type on the property.

Maybe FDJ2, or someone better informed than I, can explain why we have decided not to pursue this.

I'm very impressed with Delta's MEC, but frustrated that scope is nt a higher priority.

Maybe because management at neither DAL or NWA have any desire to? Maybe because they want to keep the operations separate for whipsaw potential?
Maybe because neither MEC has the extra negotiating capital to "buy" it back at the expense of other negotiating priorities?

Don't get me wrong - I'd like to see them on the list as well as all other 50 seat and above flying. Just don't see how we are going to get there from here unless it's to the companies perceived benefit.