New Bid for USAIR EAST Pilots?

[dispatchguy]

It's an indication that USAPA is here to do the right thing.

I've been under the impression that adhering to the agreed-to binding arbitration called Nicolau was the right thing, and we see how well that has gone. While Nic might've been flawed, it was still agreed to that it would be adhered to.

I thought one of the requirements to get an ATP was to be of "good moral character". Good moral character must not include keeping your agreements; I'll have to keep that in mind...

Ex-Cactus DXR.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

A couple points regarding the upcoming furloughs:

1) The TA does say that there are three seperate lists, the east, west and newhire (the "third" list, with 153 pilots including the CEL folks) Although the TA does not specifically say that the third list has to be furloughed first, it DOES say that the third list is junior to both other lists. Both east and west contracts require furloughs to happen in reverse seniority order. Since nobody disputes that the third list is junior to everyone else, it can be assumed that they would need to be furloughed before anyone else on the east or west list is put on the street. A good union would be aggressively pursuing this point, and USAPA could gain some respect out west by pursuing this issue. If the company is allowed to get away with anything else, they have succeeded in whipsawing our group. I don't want to see ANYONE hit the street, but if there are going to be furloughs, it needs to go in this order.

2) USAPA should be pursuing furlough mitigation on the west through pay caps and early outs in addition to the voluntary leaves (which I give them credit for, BTW).

 

[av8tor76]

it's so frikin funny how many bumper stickers i see daily on the westie flight bags saying "UScaba is not our union", then you want them to do something about west furloughs...are there 94 westies who are gonna come east to fly the 190?? I think not.

 

[m80drvr]

it's so frikin funny how many bumper stickers i see daily on the westie flight bags saying "UScaba is not our union", then you want them to do something about west furloughs...are there 94 westies who are gonna come east to fly the 190?? I think not.

With thousands of pilots soon to be on the street and the only jobs require a cummute to Vietnan , I would assume the affected pilots would like the opton. Not to mention that the pilots will be building time toward longevity and seniority. But alas seniority is just like a crew meal.

 

[A-V-8]

4)It's an indication that USAPA is here to do the right thing. But of course it's viewed here as nothing.

If you were here to do the right thing then your would accept the seniority list the way the arbitrator awarded it. Instead you made an organization to steal seniority from America West Pilots. Are you proud to be part of an organization whose #1 priority is theft?

 

[BeCareful!]

I love all this mythical denied JS stuff. No one I know of who commutes has had any denied JS on other carriers. I know you guys in the west have denied JS....classy move. But this alleged widespread JS denial is a FI.com myth. You have perhaps fooled some of the commuter newbies here, like the CRJ captian who just posted. Whatever.



That's a true statement. I don't know of anyone at UAL that would deny a jumpseat. For the record congrats on dumping ALPA.

Thanks eaglesview. Not that the pseudo reality here on FI.com really matters, but for the 10 minutes a week I spend here it's nice for it to have some factual basis, not the West's vivid dreams of a system-wide jumpseat war against east pilots and a uniform and undying support for ALPA.

 

[A-V-8]

"2) Thousands of dissatisfied ALPA members have congratulated us and asked us how to rid themselves of the Beast."

And how many have voted so far? Do you think anyone is saying that to the AWA guys? O hey in related news Net Jets went off on their own but sorry no ALPA guys yet. I am expecting a vote any time now!

I am holding my breath.

OK I am turning red now.

Ding Ding Ding and the winner of the retard comment of the thread is Dan Roman! I would like to thank all of the Kool-Aid drinkers at USAPA for their support.

Just try to say anything to protect your own ego from the shame of what you are doing no mater how misleading or asinine it may be.

 

[imacdog]

Leave NetJets out of this. NetJets just passed a contract that benefits the lives of all of its members. A far cry from what the USAPA losers are trying to accomplish.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

it's so frikin funny how many bumper stickers i see daily on the westie flight bags saying "UScaba is not our union", then you want them to do something about west furloughs...are there 94 westies who are gonna come east to fly the 190?? I think not.

If you all would drop the DOH issue I think most AWA pilots would support USAPA...or at least they wouldn't oppose it so much.

As long as you push DOH (which isn't going to happen, BTW) you alienate the west pilot group and basically force them to oppose you.

What are we supposed to do? If we suport USAPA they will try to use our money against us. If we don't support USAPA we have no say in anything and cannot participate...although the west is outnumbered 2 to 1 so I guess it wouldn't matter if supported them or not.

USAPA is the East's union. Is is not the West's. USAPA has made that clear in writing. The only literature I have recieved from USAPA basically says "East guys, this is what we are doing to help you... West guys, start paying dues or we will have you terminated..." Look at your quote. USAPA is not enforcing the TA, West guys are going to get furloughed that shouldn't, and you East guys are suprised that West doesn't like USAPA?

Why hasn't USAPA come out and said something like "Westies, we know that you are not happy about the representation but we would like a chance to show you how we can be better than ALPA. We want a strong unified pilot group and we know that we are ALL in this together. We want every pilot at US Airways to participate and make this a stong airline. From here on out there is no East or West but one unified group."?

You want us to participate? Quit wasting time and money with the hopeless DOH and start making us feel like USAPA exists to serve us, too...not just the East. Now you know what you've gotta do. Are you gonna do it?

For now I'll pay my dues but I won't become a member. At least I wont have to pay for the assesments when USAPA declares bankruptcy.



Oh, BTW, I would absolutely fly the 190 if it meant keeping a paycheck. What kind of idiot wouldn't?

 

[m80drvr]

If you all would drop the DOH issue I think most AWA pilots would support USAPA...or at least they wouldn't oppose it so much.

As long as you push DOH (which isn't going to happen, BTW) you alienate the west pilot group and basically force them to oppose you.

What are we supposed to do? If we suport USAPA they will try to use our money against us. If we don't support USAPA we have no say in anything and cannot participate...although the west is outnumbered 2 to 1 so I guess it wouldn't matter if supported them or not.

USAPA is the East's union. Is is not the West's. USAPA has made that clear in writing. The only literature I have recieved from USAPA basically says "East guys, this is what we are doing to help you... West guys, start paying dues or we will have you terminated..." Look at your quote. USAPA is not enforcing the TA, West guys are going to get furloughed that shouldn't, and you East guys are suprised that West doesn't like USAPA?

Why hasn't USAPA come out and said something like "Westies, we know that you are not happy about the representation but we would like a chance to show you how we can be better than ALPA. We want a strong unified pilot group and we know that we are ALL in this together. We want every pilot at US Airways to participate and make this a stong airline. From here on out there is no East or West but one unified group."?

You want us to participate? Quit wasting time and money with the hopeless DOH and start making us feel like USAPA exists to serve us, too...not just the East. Now you know what you've gotta do. Are you gonna do it?

For now I'll pay my dues but I won't become a member. At least I wont have to pay for the assesments when USAPA declares bankruptcy.



Oh, BTW, I would absolutely fly the 190 if it meant keeping a paycheck. What kind of idiot wouldn't?

Best post I've read in a long time

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Fly-n-hi I agree with you.

 

[Dan Roman]

And how many have voted so far? Do you think anyone is saying that to the AWA guys? O hey in related news Net Jets went off on their own but sorry no ALPA guys yet. I am expecting a vote any time now!

I am holding my breath.

OK I am turning red now.

Ding Ding Ding and the winner of the retard comment of the thread is Dan Roman! I would like to thank all of the Kool-Aid drinkers at USAPA for their support.

Just try to say anything to protect your own ego from the shame of what you are doing no mater how misleading or asinine it may be.

Don't turn red dude, that was a quote from Be careful, I went on to dispute it. I guess it looks like I was saying that because when I edited it it took out the shaded part that identifies who I was quoting. Read the rest of what I wrote, it should lower you blood pressure.

 

[BeCareful!]

"Westies, we know that you are not happy about the representation but we would like a chance to show you how we can be better than ALPA. We want a strong unified pilot group and we know that we are ALL in this together. We want every pilot at US Airways to participate and make this a stung airline. From here on out there is no East or West but one unified group."?


Fly-n-hi,

I agree that USAPA should be reaching out to the West in this way, and frankly I didn't know they had not done this yet. I'm going to call my reps and ask what is being done and make the suggestion that they get on it.

As for DOH, I'm sure they are going to stick to that effort. But what if enough conditions and restrictions are put in place so that none of your career expectations are harmed? Why is this not OK? Were you guys just about to buy A330's and start PHL-CDG? It seems like all I hear from any of you is that your were all going to upgrade in 5 years and so you should still upgrade in 5. Well, sorry, but you work for a bigger airline now, and bigger airlines tend to have longer upgrades.

There is a lot of irrationality on both sides of this coin. If you're right and Nic sticks, well then I guess I'll congratulate you guys on obtaining impenetrable furlough protection. I'll tell you, part of Dave O'Dell's career expectations were not that he would go from being the last guy on the list to having 1500 behind him almost overnight.

In any case, I'll pass along your ideas to USAPA. We certainly would be better off working together.

 

[Dan Roman]

I think this is what it should look like

2) Thousands of dissatisfied ALPA members have congratulated us and asked us how to rid themselves of the Beast.

.

Just to keep in perspective, there are a lot more ALPA members that feel you guys are idiots. I wouldn't gloat to much just because you are able to find a "dissatisfied airline pilot" there are a ton of them in todays economy and some will blame anything or anyone they can find for the dismal situation the industry is in.

 

[A-V-8]

Don't turn red dude, that was a quote from Be careful, I went on to dispute it. I guess it looks like I was saying that because when I edited it it took out the shaded part that identifies who I was quoting. Read the rest of what I wrote, it should lower you blood pressure.

O.K. sorry I misdirected some reality. Who ever originally posted the comment that was under your name wins it.

And for the Net Jets comment my point was that ALPA carriers have had time to vote ALPA out and they haven't even tried. The USAPA cheerleaders keep saying that everyone in ALPA will soon follow. My point was that it was really dumb to say this. I mean who? Some anonymous carrier? Apparently there are a lot of them. But I haven’t seen even one vote let alone "Tons" of carriers just voting out APLA and trying to steal seniority from AWA. Nothing but respect for Net Jets from here. If I had someone there that I knew my stuff would be on file. I think that Net Jets is one of the premier places in the industry to work.