New Bid for USAIR EAST Pilots?

[imacdog]

Really, Dan? And you got this info from...? Did the Wilson Center conduct an ALPA poll (your dues $$ at work.)??

The number of pilots on this board calling you guys idiots should be your first clue.

How well are your dues monies working for you guys - that failed lawsuit wasn't free was it?

 

[get2flyin]

1) FlightMisInfo.com is not the real world. Really, none of this stuff you guys post has any bearing on anything.

And yet, you continue to post. Why?

2) Thousands of dissatisfied ALPA members have congratulated us and asked us how to rid themselves of the Beast.

And thousands of disgusted ALPA members have vowed to support us by not allowing you to ride on their jumpseats. Where were you going with this?

3) USAPA representation is available to all of us. Non-membership is a choice you guys are making, and it's a pretty stupid one.

No, USAPA dues collection is available to all of us. Very little in your by-laws serves the West pilots. And the DOH provision, what does that demonstrate? If it truly is the Holy Grail of merger policy, why isn't retroactive to those who were previously "brought into the USAir fold" and then stapled?

4) USAPA's negotiation of the enhanced leave provisions in the East contract being offered to the West is something, it's a freekin' start, and it was done quickly on behalf of a group who doesn't pay dues, and who fights, kicks, and screams out loud on the Internet on a daily basis as well as mailing feces and all that other professional, responsible stuff. It's an indication that USAPA is here to do the right thing. But of course it's viewed here as nothing.

Simmer down now, champ. Your crack team of experts was able to implement a system of allowing senior pilots to leave the company for a while. Wow, I'm sure the company fought that kicking and screaming. While I agree, it is something, if that's the best the West is going to get, don't expect a ticker-tape parade when you show up in Phoenix.

And, yes, to whoever asked, the phone message does address the case dismissal. As usual, it's not as cut and dried as you all make it seem here, but whatever. I have no illusion that USAPA is perfect, and I personally wish they'd focus on getting this group together. I really do believe that we could do better as a group independent of ALPA National, but, of course, we may never see this potential realized. Too bad.

Did you read the dismissal? The judge didn't just dismiss it. He basically said it was a joke. If that's not what you got out of it, read it again.

Really, Dan? And you got this info from...? Did the Wilson Center conduct an ALPA poll (your dues $$ at work.)??

And you fault ALPA for how they spent money? Meanwhile, USAPA is chasing windmills by frivolously suing the very pilots it supposedly represents with your money. And yet, that doesn't bother you. Why is that? I think it's because you bought into the "entitlement" sales job lock, stock, and barrel. The West didn't win when this got tossed out, but your awesome lawyers win regardless of the outcome. How's that making you feel?

You can spare us the "it was all about Nicolau" story, because it wasn't. ALPA has been identified as a self-serving, bloated, ineffective organization on this property for a loooong time, and their days were numbered Nic or no Nic.

And you can spare the rest of us the "it wasn't the Nicolau" story, because it was. In its short history, USAPA has identified itself as a self-serving, ineffective organization. Had you attempted to oust ALPA after the merger was complete, you might have had the support of many of the West pilots. ALPA didn't blow it, your piss-poor reps did. But everybody was willing to make ALPA the scapegoat and you threw them out to try and take another bite at the pie. I'm embarrassed to be associated with the majority of you. Integrity matters.

 

[Lampshade]

Since you seem to know, why don't you post it here so we can all examine the great accomplishments of these powerful ALPA MECs?

While USAPA remains pre-occupied with fighting "fuel abuse training", gear pin procedures, and frivolous lawsuits, other pilot unions have been busy securing the jobs of their members. Consider recent activity of the following pilot groups:

· June 20, 2008 - Continental MEC negotiates a "furlough mitigation" LOA.

· June 26 - American Eagle MEC ratifies an agreement with American Eagle management to preserve pilot jobs and reduce furloughs.

· July 9, 2008 - Furloughs to be a last resort after employing early-out programs, voluntary leaves, work rule modifications, and attrition at Northwest Airlines.

· July 9, 2008 - United MEC to consider a "furlough mitigation" TA.

Following is a table that compares "furlough mitigation" agreements from 5 airlines, including US Airways:





VLOA= CAL, NWA, EGL, UAL, US (1 out of 4 ain't bad)

WORK RULE MODs= CAL, NWA, EGL, UAL

"EARLY OUT" RETIREMENT =CAL, NWA

REDUCTION OF OUTSOURCING = EGL


Also, there is still no word if USAPA plans to follow the lead of both the AAA and AWA MEC's in working out a program to help pay for the continuation of medical benefits for pilots who are furloughed. Both MECs invoked this program in 2001 to help furloughed pilots pay for their COBRA health care premiums providing they fell under strict eligibility guidelines. Furloughed pilots, many on probationary pay, would have a difficult time providing their families with necessary but expensive healthcare without assistance.

 

[MCDU]

The number of pilots on this board calling you guys idiots should be your first clue.

You ever hear of the the silent majority?

Check out the latest crew session on 7/8 in PHX with Parker and Hogg.
Very sad. With all the cuts and furloughs we have endured in the EAST, nothing comes close to the unprofessinal behavior displayed by a bunch of sad individuals at AWA. Especially Susie. She needs help. She is about to snap.

Marty

 

[becket]

The number of pilots on this board calling you guys idiots should be your first clue.

You ever hear of the the silent majority?

Check out the latest crew session on 7/8 in PHX with Parker and Hogg.
Very sad. With all the cuts and furloughs we have endured in the EAST, nothing comes close to the unprofessinal behavior displayed by a bunch of sad individuals at AWA. Especially Susie. She needs help. She is about to snap.

Marty

"nothing comes close to the unprofessional behavior"?!!

That's hysterical! USAPA is a pus filled sore on the rear end of this profession. Too many ethical, moral and legal violations to count from that fake "union"

The silent majority...you mean the super secret, ultra quiet...almost as if they don't exist in reality "silent" majority?

 

[Guppiedriver]

3) USAPA representation is available to all of us. Non-membership is a choice you guys are making, and it's a pretty stupid one.

Membership involves agreeing to DOH. Hardly stupid if you're a westie.

Drop DOH from your C&BL's and the lawsuits against the west and you'll see a spike in membership.

 

[imacdog]

In this case, the "silent majority" is just sitting back and letting the vocal majority speak for them.

 

[Dan Roman]

Becareful, IMAC and Get 2 schooled you, but let me add an observasion about yor anti ALPA rhetoric. The reason so many ALPA pilots are disgusted with USAPA is you guys failed to realize that ALPA is about everyone not just YOU. AWA/USAir has to be the most difficult merger imaginable. Huge differences in DOH that had to be rectified. AWA initiated a deal that in all likelyhood did save USAir. But USAir brought plenty to the table also. Again a more difficult list to merge would be hard to find. ALPA wisely didn't take sides, they tried to represent EVERYBODY and binding arbitration probally was the only realistic way to go. You guys were upset because ALPA didn't favor YOU. ALPA is about strength in numbers, it may not always do what YOU want, but it's the best vehicle out there for preserving our profession and you guys have decided you care more about yourselves than the profession as a whole. Without the merger you probably would have been on the street, you guys have screwed things up so bad for your airline you may not survive the very dificult times ahead, had you worked together, you would have had a much better shot at surviving.

 

[olympus593]

Really, Dan? And you got this info from...? Did the Wilson Center conduct an ALPA poll (your dues $$ at work.)??

Do these same loyal ALPA members think the AA guys are idiots for leaving in 1964? Are the SWA and UPS pilots idiots, too?

You can spare us the "it was all about Nicolau" story, because it wasn't. ALPA has been identified as a self-serving, bloated, ineffective organization on this property for a loooong time, and their days were numbered Nic or no Nic.

I think you and usapa are a bunch of idiots.

 

[BeCareful!]

I love all this mythical denied JS stuff. No one I know of who commutes has had any denied JS on other carriers. I know you guys in the west have denied JS....classy move. But this alleged widespread JS denial is a FI.com myth. You have perhaps fooled some of the commuter newbies here, like the CRJ captian who just posted. Whatever.

Hey Lampshade: that 2001 ALPA COBRA payment for furloughed pilots was a freekin' train wreck! It cost me more than $800 dollars for an office visit for my daughter, because it was reported as imputed income. There was a better way to do it, but ALPA f*&^%$ it up and I tried to undo it but to no avail.

Thanks for reminding me; I will speak to USAPA about avoiding the fu&^ed up way ALPA handled that.

BC

 

[WickedPissa]

And the companies that they gave it away to(Air Wisconsin,Chataqua in all it's various forms and the wholly-owned folks) do the job a hell of a lot better than the company they replaced. Even Mesa is an improvement over anything mainline offers.

PHXFLYR

You are mainline.

 

[WickedPissa]

he's talking about "the present" and not about the "the past" ... strange concept, time to get "a clue".

how do you know what he thinks? was that part of your pillow talk?

 

[Lampshade]

Hey Lampshade: that 2001 ALPA COBRA payment for furloughed pilots was a freekin' train wreck! It cost me more than $800 dollars for an office visit for my daughter, because it was reported as imputed income. There was a better way to do it, but ALPA f*&^%$ it up and I tried to undo it but to no avail.

Thanks for reminding me; I will speak to USAPA about avoiding the fu&^ed up way ALPA handled that.

BC

It was handled fine by AWA, but the yEasties have issues with everything. Whats so hard about paying cobra payments for furloughed pilots for a few months? Ask uSUCKA that.

 

[PHXFLYR]

You are mainline.

Don't remind me.

PHXFLYR

 

[eaglesview]

I love all this mythical denied JS stuff. No one I know of who commutes has had any denied JS on other carriers. I know you guys in the west have denied JS....classy move. But this alleged widespread JS denial is a FI.com myth. You have perhaps fooled some of the commuter newbies here, like the CRJ captian who just posted. Whatever.

That's a true statement. I don't know of anyone at UAL that would deny a jumpseat. For the record congrats on dumping ALPA.