Expressjet announcement today

[Nevets]

You guys were better off with skywest.

The CPA with CAL isn't going to make any money since XJT pretty much has to operate at cost to maintain the cost savings CAL wanted.

Too bad your management could not figure out how to raise the bar too.

Wrong, SKW was asking for bigger concessions in order to become "cost competitive" to keep the CAL flying or lose all of it to SKW. CAL wanted savings on the magnitude that SKW was offering so it is safe to assume that is what CAL got from an independent XJT.

 

[Nevets]

I hope all of you who voted no to be acquired by SKW know what you voted for, all those junior guys and gals are going to be in a world of hurt.

I wish them the best as they go out back into the market looking for jobs. I myself could not imagine what is to be put in a place like that.

Not bashing those who voted no, its just hard to understand where you guys come from, where all I know is where I am at. Good Luck, and goodnite.

The MEC decided that, not the rank and file pilots. SKW was going to furlough 700 pilots anyways, probably more than an independent XJT will.

 

[Nevets]

How bad was the offer? Didn't SkyWest offer 3.50 a share? Considering what the stock price is now, that seems to have been a great offer.

I also heard that if skyw had bought xjet, they would have furloughed 800. Wasn't branded started because CAL pulled 69 planes? How many would have been furloughed had you guys not started the branded flying? I thought it was great that xjet mgmt was trying find new flying options.

In hindsight it looks like doing so just delayed furloughs while jeopardizing the entire company.

The MEC's job was NOT to consider the purchase price of the stock. That is the job of the BOD. The MEC only concerned itself with condition that SKW put on the purchase of getting rid of scope and the holding letter in the pilot's contract.

If XJT would have given the 69 aircraft back they would have furloughed about 700 pilots starting in January of 2007. XJT would have also lost any leverage they had on CAL in negotiating a new CPA and it would have given a competitor 69 aircraft to do the flying it was previously doing.

 

[Nevets]

Had Skywest bought Expressjet you would be reading the same press release. No more Delta flying, termination of branded and furloughs. Minor details would be different, but the same none the less. Continental wanted a less expensive CPA and Jerry wanted them out of SLC and LAX, they achieved that without spending a penny. You guys got stuck between a rock and a hard place. Good luck going forward. These are not the best of times for any of us.

Forgot one minor point though. If XJT pilots would not have given into becoming more "cost competitive" SKW would have taken the rest of the CAL flying.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but from the DAL press release and media Q&A, SKW is only replacing the 15 XJT departures out of SLC.

 

[Nevets]

And that does what? XJT still doesn't own them and still has to pay lease on them. CAL still got you guys to underbid everyone. Branded is closing, 500+ furloughed, JR got put in his place, and stock is 1/18th of what it was a year ago... But you've got the A/C. Or you think you do. XJT still doesn't own them.

I'm not sure anyone wants to actually own any 50 seaters. I think that a lease is probably better right now. But to answer your question, XJT now can bid on flying without the most favored nation clause, can fly into CAL's hub airports, and can buy or be bought without having to get consent from CAL. XJT also gets lower lease payments and any aircraft that are parked are paid for by CAL. Also, XJT has first rights on any parked aircraft.

 

[Minimaniac]

I'm not sure anyone wants to actually own any 50 seaters. I think that a lease is probably better right now. But to answer your question, XJT now can bid on flying without the most favored nation clause, can fly into CAL's hub airports, and can buy or be bought without having to get consent from CAL. XJT also gets lower lease payments and any aircraft that are parked are paid for by CAL. Also, XJT has first rights on any parked aircraft.

In these times, that sounds like a forward-thinking arrangement for the xjet management. It is a shame that the rates for service are not high enough to cover current pilot wages, but it sounds like there are plenty of other perks that will secure a future for Xjet. Any details on early termination of the contract by CAL?

 

[Nevets]

In these times, that sounds like a forward-thinking arrangement for the xjet management. It is a shame that the rates for service are not high enough to cover current pilot wages, but it sounds like there are plenty of other perks that will secure a future for Xjet. Any details on early termination of the contract by CAL?

The New CPA removes Continental's ability to terminate the agreement without cause.

Continental can still terminate the New CPA for cause or for our material breach (in most cases, which remains uncured for 90 days after we receive notice of the breach). Several additional events that constitute material breach were added to the New CPA, including (i) our failure to complete (with certain exclusions) more than 97.5% of our scheduled flights for any two consecutive months, (ii) our failure to depart on time (with certain exclusions) for more than 82.5% of our scheduled flights for any 60 consecutive days, (iii) a non-carrier specific grounding of the type of aircraft we fly and (iv) change of control.

We retain our ability to terminate the New CPA if Continental materially breaches it.

 

[FightingIrish]

Just 1% is unacceptable.

So is paying to be an airline pilot! Why do you feel the need to lecture people with your background?

 

[bmpilot2003]

Wrong, SKW was asking for bigger concessions in order to become "cost competitive" to keep the CAL flying or lose all of it to SKW. CAL wanted savings on the magnitude that SKW was offering so it is safe to assume that is what CAL got from an independent XJT.

Which is why i do not see profits for Xjet is the future unless they can become more "cost competitive".

 

[bmpilot2003]

They gave CAL a number to secure the bid but have only recently begun to announce strategies to change their cost structure ie furlough to be able to make that number a reality. Im sure more cuts are probably coming too.

Too bad neither management team couldn't raise the bar and decided a furlough is not an effective way to change cost structure.

 

[JediNein]

Pilots are, and always will be, a cost unit.

Engineers and sales people can make the company money. Gate agents, flight attendents, and ticket agents can deliver customer service and directly impact the customer satisfaction and future purchases. They can help managers grow empires with headcount.

Pilots just cost money.

As pilots don't make money for the company, the only way for pilots to cost less is to reduce wages and reduce headcount.

 

[rtmcfi]

Pilots are, and always will be, a cost unit.

Engineers and sales people can make the company money. Gate agents, flight attendents, and ticket agents can deliver customer service and directly impact the customer satisfaction and future purchases. They can help managers grow empires with headcount.

Pilots just cost money.

As pilots don't make money for the company, the only way for pilots to cost less is to reduce wages and reduce headcount.

That is an interesting perspective. While revenue generation may be an area that pilots don't hold much sway over, many costs are directly influenced by pilots, thereby influencing the bottom line.

 

[ToiletDuck]

Pilot paycuts have never saved a company, and they never will. You've bought into management's bulls---. Pathetic.

Are you joking? Until recently labor was the most expensive aspect of an airline. You don't think pilot paycuts ever saved an airline? Ever heard of AMR? That's exactly what kept it from going CH 11. Should the crews have gotten their pay back? Hell yes but it did let them dodge the first firing squad. AMR has a leg to stand on now. True they have an older fleet that cost them and arm and leg but they also have the ability to negotiate under BK. UAL is screwed if it goes into BK along with the rest. Their assets were already negotiated after 9/11.

 

[Nevets]

Which is why i do not see profits for Xjet is the future unless they can become more "cost competitive".

Yep, CAL was successful in whipsawing XJT pilots with SKW pilots even though XJT remained independent. This is why I kept saying that this was all a negotiating tactic on CAL's part. They were going to win either way. But again, SKW was asking for 3 times more in concessions to become "cost competative" with SKW pilots.

 

[CFIT]

Yep, CAL was successful in whipsawing XJT pilots with SKW pilots even though XJT remained independent. This is why I kept saying that this was all a negotiating tactic on CAL's part. They were going to win either way. But again, SKW was asking for 3 times more in concessions to become "cost competative" with SKW pilots.

I think you are beaing overly general with you're statement. I think that SkyWest can be much more cost effective in it's product but not just from a pilot cost front. Our compensation package is very competitive with XJT.

And sad to say but I would bet a beer that either your pay table or company is not going to be here next year.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Pilots are, and always will be, a cost unit.

Engineers and sales people can make the company money. Gate agents, flight attendents, and ticket agents can deliver customer service and directly impact the customer satisfaction and future purchases. They can help managers grow empires with headcount.

Pilots just cost money.

As pilots don't make money for the company, the only way for pilots to cost less is to reduce wages and reduce headcount.

Get real...If we don't move the metal, the company doesn't make any money. The transportation of the passengers from point A to point B is carried out by us, and if we don't carry out our end, there is no money period! You think engineers and sales people work for free, they're not a "cost unit"?


You don't think that pilots deliver customer service? Who is most responsible to help get the people where they're going, and getting them there on time and safely???

 

[Nevets]

I think you are beaing overly general with you're statement. I think that SkyWest can be much more cost effective in it's product but not just from a pilot cost front. Our compensation package is very competitive with XJT.

And sad to say but I would bet a beer that either your pay table or company is not going to be here next year.

Yeah, SKW can be more cost effective with their other employee groups as well. I was only speaking of pilots as that is all I know of when it comes to "cost competitive." After all, it was JA and BR who pointed these facts out to us.

As for your bet, I don't know if you are just trying to be cruel because of the previous truths I mentioned but I would guess that our pay scale may be lower by next year. Like I said, they are asking for concession that are its still three times less than what SKW management wanted from the XJT pilots just to become "cost competative."

 

[duck_killer]

Wheres our pal PCL_128?

 

[PCL_128]

Are you joking? Until recently labor was the most expensive aspect of an airline.

Yes, and pilot labor was a very small part of that. An ALPA study of a regional pilot group showed that raising pilot total compensation by 100% (that's double) would have only increased the CASM by less than one half of one cent.

You don't think pilot paycuts ever saved an airline? Ever heard of AMR? That's exactly what kept it from going CH 11.

Pilot paycuts didn't save AMR, or DAL, UAL, CAL, or anyone else. Other cost saving measures saved these companies. Pilot payroll is a tiny blip on the radar in the grand scheme of things.

 

[dojetdriver]

Yes, and pilot labor was a very small part of that. An ALPA study of a regional pilot group showed that raising pilot total compensation by 100% (that's double) would have only increased the CASM by less than one half of one cent.

At a major airline, that's the case. I can't remember the numbers my dad gave me from UAL when they were getting bent over. But something like 1 in 5 employees at UAL at the time was in a management positition company wide. But management accounts for over 50% of the payroll.

At a regional airline, that is not the case. The pilot group is the biggest employee group, as well as the highest paid employee group. Take any of the bigger regionals and run the numbers of pilots vs TOTAL employee count. I'm not sure I have too much faith in that ALPA study.