Enough is Enough!

[Narrow Bridge]

Enough is Enough!

I have been lurking on here and reading, but not posting for quite some time. Now, I can’t hold back any longer. Enough is Enough! Get us a contract or lets get rid of the IBT, and replace them with a union who cares about us! We have been at this now for more than 2 ½ years and we still do not have a contract. Lets take a look at the events that have occurred over the last 2 months:

Management asked our leadership to accelerate the negotiations so that we can rapidly reach a CBA, our leaders then file for arbitration.

Management asked our leaders for a comprehensive list of demands, our leadership did not resopond.
Management presents a bullet point proposal for salary and certain big issues, our leadership turns it down without so much as a counterproposal. During this time, we are kept in the dark while they continue to ask for our blind faith, our trust in them, and not to question them at this critical time.

Our leadership, at the direction of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters raids the Local 1108 kitty from the Net Jets pilot group prior to their departure from our local. Was this done to retaliate against Net Jets for leaving the IBT? Regardless of the motive, it sure puts us in a precarious position now and in our future relationship with the NJASAP doesn’t it?

Net Jets is gone, it’s time to sink or swim guys. I have a sickening feeling we are all going to be in for a rude awakening, when we see our financial situation without the support of Net Jets dues.

I think it’s time we ask our leaders whose interest they have in mind, ours or General President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters .

It’s time to get us a contract or step aside and let someone else who cares about us finish the job!

 

[C425Driver]

Yet another first-time poster slamming FLOPS pilots attempt to better their QOL - I'm seeing a trend here...

 

[ProFracPilot]

Another 1 post wonder.

I have questioned our union leadership on many occasions. And I go directly to Mat. He's never failed to either answer his phone or return the call. When was the last time you spoke with the union leadership, NB? The answer is never. Because if you're not management personified, you're certainly drinking their kool-aid by the gallon.

It is obvious where your loyalties lie. So, how about asking BT this question: Where in his "proposal" were the other work rules and protections (such as controls over outrageous insurance cost increases to the pilots)? Let's see if your next post provides the answer, or if you only continue to reguritate the rhetoric coming out of CGF.

My Union leadership understands that they CANNOT release any of the items currently under negotiation, as good faith bargaining DEMANDS these negotiations are done in secret until a tentative agreement is reached.

Everyone with half a brain understands the only point of BT releasing that proposal, and your reason for posting here, was a ridiculously weak attempt at dividing the pilots. Further, this move by management was not looked favorably upon by the mediator. What BT did by releasing ANY of the information from negotiations, other than what is already in the form of a Tentative Agreement, was to demonstrate that management IS NOT bargaining in good faith!

Let me share one more thing, speaking as one of the (previously) most vehement anti-union pilots we had in our ranks, you're a fool for falling for these management tactics. And they will fail. This solidarity of this pilot group is increasing by the minute. The 5 weeks following July 21st will prove me right.

 

[FRLWD]

Enough is Enough!
I have been lurking on here and reading, but not posting for quite some time. Now, I can’t hold back any longer. Enough is Enough!

Quite some time??? You joined the board two days ago!
The only place you've been lurking is in the shadows waiting for an opportunity to throw a FUD grenade into the crowd.

 

[WabiSabi]

blah blah blah blah

Marker brothers? Scabbing babbling Bob T? M. Kiss-ass K...meyer? is that you???

How are y'all doin'?

 

[Fozzy]

FUD alert.

Another uke:F(ud) & (H)arassment tool.

Hey TOOL, NetJets is one word! I would assume that anyone that actually worked in this biz would know at least that much.

Now go back to studying for your bar exam.:laugh:

 

[Narrow Bridge]

It's so convenient for you narrow minded people to peg everyone with a different view point as someone from managmenet isn't it. Well guess what, I'm not from managment. I'm just someone who supports our union but is starting to feel like they are being influenced a litte to much by someone else and I'm no longer sure they have our best interest in mind.
I have talked to Mat and Rick and I'm just getting a little tired of no one caring to hear my concerns, they just give me the standard answer and tell me to trust them. I've been trusting them for 2 1/2 years now.

I know that BT was the one dragging his feet for most of this time but now it looks like they want to settle this. I want to see some results. If our current leadership can't close the deal there are other people who would not hesitate to give someone else a chance.

 

[dime line]

It's so convenient for you narrow minded people to peg everyone with a different view point as someone from managmenet isn't it. Well guess what, I'm not from managment. I'm just someone who supports our union but is starting to feel like they are being influenced a litte to much by someone else and I'm no longer sure they have our best interest in mind.
I have talked to Mat and Rick and I'm just getting a little tired of no one caring to hear my concerns, they just give me the standard answer and tell me to trust them. I've been trusting them for 2 1/2 years now.

I know that BT was the one dragging his feet for most of this time but now it looks like they want to settle this.

So, who is narrowminded, Lets get this straight, You think Management just wants to hand us over 20 million, tell me, you don't think they just want to give us that money, with out a fight. I want to see some results. If our current leadership can't close the deal there are other people who would not hesitate to give someone else a chance.

Ok narrow minded......Do you think it was ok for 70 of your coworkers to get wrongfullly FIRED. Whats your take on that?

 

[Narrow Bridge]

I don't think they want to hand it over, I think we have shown them that they have no choice but to hand it over.

Of course I don't think that it's right that 70 of our brothers and sisters were wrongfully terminated for supporting our union. The sooner that we get a contract though,the sooner the rest of us will be protected form a wrongfull predatory scare tactic like that one.
We can settle the contract now and then conticue to fight for them while we all are protected by the CBA.

 

[dime line]

I don't think they want to hand it over, I think we have shown them that they have no choice but to hand it over.

Of course I don't think that it's right that 70 of our brothers and sisters were wrongfully terminated for supporting our union. The sooner that we get a contract though,the sooner the rest of us will be protected form a wrongfull predatory scare tactic like that one.
We can settle the contract now and then conticue to

fight for them while we all are protected by the CBA

.

Just nice, why don't you post this exact same thing on the union board under your name.(You don't have the balls thats why) And lets see what everybody thinks. You and I both know what your talking about here. Once there is a contract there is no more negotiation. So how do you plan to negotiate for the jobs of 70 pilots after the fact?

So it sounds like guys got fired for writing up airplanes that you didn't. Sounds like your riding on the coat tails of 70 fired pilots!!!!!!(I could be wrong but I don't think so)

 

[glasspilot]

Dear FLOPS management,

While I understand your desire to see the union go away, I must say that you're going about it all wrong.

First of all, it is too obvious when you post here as a "first time poster". In this instance you did try a plausible story with "I've been lurking for a long time and have to speak up now". Okay, but your join date is posted at July 2008 so right there your busted.

Second, every post alludes to the same two goals. Abandon your leadership and stop paying dues. It sort of reminds me of the movie Saving Private Ryan. The part where they're marching through a town and the Germans are broadcasting on a megaphone, "The Statue of Liberty is Kaput!" It just makes you look stupid.

If you want to get rid of the union, and I know you do, then all you have to do is fly around the world real fast in a Westerly direction to make time back up. I saw this first hand in a movie and am confident it will work. Once you go back in time you can then treat your pilots nice. That's all, nice. Like, you could pay them industry standard. Not LEADING...no, that's too much. Just standard will do.

You could treat the crews with respect. They don't need penthouse suits or stretch limos. They also don't need endless screwing with on the road. Remember the Golden Rule? When you're applying work rules think of that.

If by some chance you're unable to make the "fly fast West" thing work then you're left with three options. Go get a CBA, quit and let some other management team get a CBA, or fire everyone and quit...close the doors and tell all the owners that the moneys all gone and their planes just lost 70% of whatever value they had as the market just got flooded, all over a stupid CBA.

Good luck to you.

 

[skanza]

So it sounds like guys got fired for writing up airplanes that you didn't. Sounds like your riding on the coat tails of 70 fired pilots!!!!!!(I could be wrong but I don't think so)

Yeah, airplanes that weren't broken.
And why do you care so much about 70 people that are not you. Aren't you supposed to be more selfish than that?

 

[FRLWD]

It's so convenient for you narrow minded people to peg everyone with a different view point as someone from managmenet isn't it.

Rule number one: If your feelings are easily hurt don't post your opinion on this board.

Rule number two: Don't lie. It'll destroy your credibility.

Why would you start your inaugural post by saying "I have been lurking on here and reading, but not posting for quite some time. Now, I can’t hold back any longer." when you joined the board two days ago?

Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

 

[Narrow Bridge]

First of all, it is too obvious when you post here as a "first time poster". In this instance you did try a plausible story with "I've been lurking for a long time and have to speak up now". Okay, but your join date is posted at July 2008 so right there your busted.

You almost sound intelligent with that!
Because of course the only way I could read things on hear is if I was signed in under this username huh?

Enough people don't bother with the union board. There are fewer even narrower minded people there that will thrash any post from anyone with a view any different that their own. All of the level headed reasonable people don't want to say a word on there because of the response they get from people like you.

I'm curious, most pilots are type A personality and would never blindly follow someone and not hold them accountable for their mistakes. What is your problem?

 

[netjetwife]

Regarding the wrongfully fired pilots: after the fact the company will have little to no motivation to discuss anything. (That's why it's a good idea to make joint committees part of the CBA so that both sides must learn to work together). A strong union works to settle all issues at the bargaining table. Taking contract hostages is a common tactic used to test the will of the pilotgroup. By standing up for your fellow pilots you're actually making a strong statement about your resolve as a group. So hold the line!

NB, when management is serious your negotiators will know it and the Tentative Agreement will reflect it. Ask any NJ pilot what to expect. A TA has the same format the contract does. You wouldn't contract for a house to be built without every detail written out so why be less diligent with your biggest investment? Your career and your family's security are certainly worth a completely spelled-out document to sign.

Finally, just ask yourself who has the most to gain by dragging out the process and you'll realize that it most definitely is not the pilots. Think clearly and don't let them rattle you. Remind yourself that Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt are routinely used by union-busters and the FLOPS are spending tons of money on the infamous Ford and Harrison-- popularly known as Fud and Harassment.

I do agree wholeheartedly that Enough is Enough! If every Options pilot does his/her part to make sure that management gets that message you'll all see a contract sooner rather than later.
Best Wishes,
NJW

 

[1folinepilot]

Yeah, airplanes that weren't broken.
And why do you care so much about 70 people that are not you. Aren't you supposed to be more selfish than that?

Skanza, You are a complete jackass! I will never forget the airplane you left me that you flew in with several grounding items that you chose to dump on me so you could go home on your day 9 airlines. When I called you out on the items, your exact quote was "It wasn't broken for me" It is obvious that you care for nobody but yourself! Go run to teabag the first MGT sack you can find as you have no friends out on the line!

 

[Narrow Bridge]

Dear FLOPS management,

While I understand your desire to see the union go away, I must say that you're going about it all wrong.

First of all, it is too obvious when you post here as a "first time poster". In this instance you did try a plausible story with "I've been lurking for a long time and have to speak up now". Okay, but your join date is posted at July 2008 so right there your busted.

Second, every post alludes to the same two goals. Abandon your leadership and stop paying dues. It sort of reminds me of the movie Saving Private Ryan. The part where they're marching through a town and the Germans are broadcasting on a megaphone, "The Statue of Liberty is Kaput!" It just makes you look stupid.

If you want to get rid of the union, and I know you do, then all you have to do is fly around the world real fast in a Westerly direction to make time back up. I saw this first hand in a movie and am confident it will work. Once you go back in time you can then treat your pilots nice. That's all, nice. Like, you could pay them industry standard. Not LEADING...no, that's too much. Just standard will do.

You could treat the crews with respect. They don't need penthouse suits or stretch limos. They also don't need endless screwing with on the road. Remember the Golden Rule? When you're applying work rules think of that.

If by some chance you're unable to make the "fly fast West" thing work then you're left with three options. Go get a CBA, quit and let some other management team get a CBA, or fire everyone and quit...close the doors and tell all the owners that the moneys all gone and their planes just lost 70% of whatever value they had as the market just got flooded, all over a stupid CBA.

Good luck to you.

I'm not telling anyone to stop paying dues, I pay my dues and I think that alot more people should than actually do. I do however think that my union should represent me and whats best for all of us, not just follow the agenda of the national IBT.

 

[waka]

Well guess what, I'm not from managment. I'm just someone who supports our union but is starting to feel like they are being influenced a litte to much by someone else and I'm no longer sure they have our best interest in mind.
I have talked to Mat and Rick and I'm just getting a little tired of no one caring to hear my concerns, they just give me the standard answer and tell me to trust them. I've been trusting them for 2 1/2 years now.

Do you pay dues? Do you work OT? Do you fly airplanes with known discrepancies?

I know that BT was the one dragging his feet for most of this time but now it looks like they want to settle this.

Of course they want to settle this......for peanuts! Also, nothing for the 70 hostages.

I want to see some results. If our current leadership can't close the deal there are other people who would not hesitate to give someone else a chance.

You call that management offer "results"? Did you even see it? Do you really want to settle for the first scrap that management throws at you? Nobody is that stupid and naive so, I don't buy your BS. You can report back to management that your efforts here are futile. Make sure they reimburse you for the $10 FI sign-up fee.

 

[netjetwife]

Glass, while I have no problem giving NB the benefit of the doubt, I do think there's some very good advice in your open letter to FLOPS management. Hopefully, they'll give it the consideration it deserves.

 

[Narrow Bridge]

Do you pay dues? Do you work OT? Do you fly airplanes with known discrepancies?

Yes I pay my dues, I don't work OT because I don't want to not because someone tells me I shouldn't. When the plane breaks I write it up.


Of course they want to settle this......for peanuts! Also, nothing for the 70 hostages.

I don't think their bullet point offer was peanuts.
Why don't we know anything about what our counterproposal was?


You call that management offer "results"? Did you even see it? Do you really want to settle for the first scrap that management throws at you? Nobody is that stupid and naive so, I don't buy your BS. You can report back to management that your efforts here are futile. Make sure they reimburse you for the $10 FI sign-up fee.

Why dont you come up with something else other than accusing everyone with a different opinion of being someone from managment. Frankly, it's getting old.

Think for yourself and quit being a blind follower.