Spirit starts driving the final nails...

[Mike man]

With the August schedules...discuss.

 

[600rvr]

Planning is saying that the Union has agreed to "try this for a few months" I'm glad we have a union. The Union is soooo powerful and "management would F us without them." Paying dues for this "protection" is really enjoyable!

Rumor is JC stated doors close when Oil's over 160... Not too far away... we may never actually have to fly these Aug lines.

 

[castle bravo]

"Rumor is JC stated doors close when Oil's over 160.."

Poor JC, he willl just have to sit back and collect his frozen NWA defined benefit pension checks at that point. Just like the NK guys get to do....right?

 

[Dizel8]

For those of us uninformed, what happened?

 

[iflysky]

Right now more than ever is the time to see how strong this pilot group is. As "our wise" union says "fly the contract", so lets see if this group will or if they will tuck their tails and bend over wide. The way I see it, the writting is on the wall here anyway, just matter of month.

 

[Mike man]

Planning is saying that the Union has agreed to "try this for a few months" I'm glad we have a union. The Union is soooo powerful and "management would F us without them." Paying dues for this "protection" is really enjoyable!

It was not anyone on the scheduling committee I can tell you for certain...the contract 25.B.3.g is the section you should look at.

If anyone needs the SPA CBA, PM me.

 

[Mike man]

The Union is soooo powerful and "management would F us without them."

Keeping in mind that you are the union (and the 546 of us on the list)...what is your plan for flying the contract this month?

 

[Mike man]

I have to comment here too about the use of JC in reference to Jeff Carlson our DO with a fancy title. Now, I'm sure it is just me but I picture Jeff C in his office getting off to all the "JC Delay due to..." messages. I'm sure it just pumps his ego more and more, so I always send Jeff C messages, I would encourage everyone to do the same.

Rant over.

 

[kwick]

They're playing "Hardball" during negotiations.

Nothing more than trying to lower expectations. Don't you remember JS's threat to shutdown the airline if we didn't accept a substandard contract.

The pilots fell for "the sky is falling" act before.

This is nothing new, and is predictable.

 

[iflysky]

More than ever "to show who is BOSS"

 

[iflysky]

JC or YO Mama, choice is yours.

 

[JT8D]

The pilots fell for "the sky is falling" act before.

With $150 oil, the sky MAY IN FACT be falling.

 

[Dizel8]

With $150 oil, the sky MAY IN FACT be falling.

It might indeed be, but not much we can do about that. Not to worry though, I heard from a reliable source, that tomorrow the sun will rise.

 

[boomlrd]

Fly the contract! The contract states 4 days off between pairings! Take your 4 days off and do not show up for pairings that start within that timeframe. I am tired of this, stand up for ourselves for christ sake, and please nobody start quoting RLA bullsh!t, if they can violate the contract, then so can we! Sick calls? Shut it down a day, the top seniority is selling out almost 150 pilots to a job loss to increase their lines and lose the 4 days off between pairings. I got nothing to lose now, 3rd furlough, I will do everything in my power to slow things down till my furlough, I mean anything legal of course. I do get tired on those red eyes to Costa Rica, might have to cancel the return flight and stay. Good Luck, I hope a few more get onboard with me!

 

[600rvr]

Oxlong... my plan for flying the contract? I guess I have to bend over and take it because our tough talking Union agreed to throw out at least two important provisions of our CBA. Flying the contract now means flying these new terms. Hopefully H in planning was not well informed. If he was wrong then I'll be calling in sick somewhere in central america. As for open time... I'll be on reserve all August so I will not even have the opportunity to be a whore.

You know all these union guys argue back and forth and do nothing. Pay has done nothing but go down in this industry with the mighty ALPA watching all the way. Not to mention how they do nothing to help pilots at the regionals. Hey the Union might save some guys jobs like the A-hole senior ex midway clown who doesn't know how the auto thrust works... while at the same time throwing others under the bus. What a joke!

Just sick of the tough talk from this regime and the last. And really tired of all the captains saying how bad it would be without a Union. Well boys our Union just agreed to let it get that bad. Aren't you glad you have money from you already below average paycheck going out to ALPA to hold management to the contract, then just to give in when Jeff C demands. Good Job Team! Way to "Fly the Contract!"

I got an brilliant (Union) idea... why not put on our hats and do some informational picketing!!! That will help. Our pax will have a lot of simpathy for us... no longer having at least four days off at a time.

Better idea... how bout a guy not associated with union and without union approval sets up a plan to... sick out, write up all the planes when out somewhere, or all pilots just not show up one day. Lets show some balls before the inevitable locks are on the doors.

 

[castle bravo]

"... before the inevitable locks are on the doors."

Can't possibly be so. After all, Ben PROMISED a couple of months ago that there would be NO merger, NO furloughs, NO liquidations.........

 

[Draginass]

When they have you cleaning the lavs is the company to going to buy the rubber gloves?

 

[kwick]

I don't know, better ask the Jet Blue pilots how that works. We haven't gotten to the point yet where pilots have to clean the aircraft.

 

[viper01]

I don't know, better ask the Jet Blue pilots how that works. We haven't gotten to the point yet where pilots have to clean the aircraft.

Jetblue pilots don't have to clean either, but some do to make on-time and get this.....just help out the f/a's.

 

[Mike man]

600rvr a job action like a sick out, slow down, et al is unfortunately illegal...ask American Pilots Association about that one. But a green pen day or safety day would be allowable.

And again I have to ask where you are getting your information about our MEC, LEC or scheduling committee allowed them to do this. I can tell you that the scheduling committee did not agree to this. If you read your CBA in the scheduling part under regular lines, there is one part that will allow them to do this...I'm sure that the intent of that language was not to allow this.

 

[boomlrd]

600rvr a job action like a sick out, slow down, et al is unfortunately illegal...ask American Pilots Association about that one. But a green pen day or safety day would be allowable.

And again I have to ask where you are getting your information about our MEC, LEC or scheduling committee allowed them to do this. I can tell you that the scheduling committee did not agree to this. If you read your CBA in the scheduling part under regular lines, there is one part that will allow them to do this...I'm sure that the intent of that language was not to allow this.

Is this an illegal job action? Violating our contract and reducing days off, building lines with over 85 hours? We are not American Airlines, we are much smaller, this is a different beast. I say fight fire with fire.

 

[boomlrd]

BTW, I really hope our union has a very blunt and powerful response to this action by management, they are furloughing 125 pilots so they can work the rest of you more. This should start an all out war with management! What is taking so long for a response?

 

[Mike man]

Is this an illegal job action? Violating our contract and reducing days off, building lines with over 85 hours?

There are no lines BLOCKED for more than 85.00 hours.

What management, and I'm sure it was thought up by those $hitbags attorneys in Atlanta Ford & Harrison because nobody in Miramar is smart enough to think of this, has done is changed Status Quo which is a bad thing which is illegal. So if we survive the cost to violate the contract for several months, is much less in their savings now...for example if they save $50,000 per month for 6 months they save $300,000 but when the arbitrator rules in our favor he/she will award everyone 2 hours of pay if you do the math using $150/hr for all 546 it is a little over $160,000 they will have to payout saving themselves $140,000 in the process.
They are screwing us...and not the good kind.

BOHICA...maybe some bag tags are in order.

See below for some Status Quo info...


Under the Railway Labor Act (RLA) and the case law applying it, the term “Status Quo” often refers to a carrier’s obligation to refrain from changing rates of pay, rules or working conditions, except through negotiation and agreement with the union under the procedures of the RLA. See Detroit and Toledo Shoreline R.R. v. UTU, 396 U.S. 142 (1969). It also refers to a union’s obligation to refrain from striking or engaging in any activities that would have the effect of a strike, such as a work slowdown.

 

[Beetle007]

This should start an all out war with management!

That would quickly get us all on the street. The board of directors has an itchy trigger finger on shutting this place down.

Right now people have a choice of tolerating the work rule changes (which are loopholes in the contract), or leaving for greener pastures.

If we want to blame anyone, we should blame the people who allowed these loopholes in our contract. Language like "to the maximum extent possible" and "Exceptions to the multiple day-off blocks may occur with prior consultation of the scheduling committee." It should say "approval of" rather than "consultation of"....big loopholes.

 

[600rvr]

While there is some truth to the loophole statement beetle, your thought process chills me. I would not like to be unemployed. I would like to have a job at one and only one airline. But who cares about that if you are forced to "tolerate" changes to work rules at the whim of the seemingly uncaring management? Let them shut it down.

 

[Beetle007]

But who cares about that if you are forced to "tolerate" changes to work rules at the whim of the seemingly uncaring management?

We aren't forced to tolerate work rules. We can leave whenever we want (and currently have the option of coming back). In China they are forced to tolerate work rules and they have to sign a lifetime commitment to an airline (or face paying penalties in the 100K+ range)

This loophole is big enough that I can't blame management for taking it to arbitration. Management (not necessarily the board of directors) is trying to save this airline. They need their paychecks almost as much as we need ours. I would rather them try to find loopholes rather than go into bankruptcy and impose a new contract on us. I saw that happen at my previous job and it is much uglier than temporarily losing 4 days off. I personally think Spirit would shut us down rather than deal with the headache of bankruptcy. But, I think we will see airlines like Midwest go into bankruptcy and try to impose a contract on their pilots with 40%+ pay cuts.

I can live with a few loopholes that will go to arbitration. It is a good middle ground while we try to weather this storm and hopefully return back to “normal” in the semi-near future.

 

[labbats]

While I hope the best for everyone at Spirit, I think it's important to ask yourselves what everyone has gained back from the post 9/11 givebacks in our industry.

At least go into this with your eyes open. Any givebacks to your contract will be permanent.

 

[castle bravo]

"The board of directors has an itchy trigger finger on shutting this place down."


OK, but what about the Indigo and Oaktree investments? How do they get their money out under this scenario? Or, are they looting the coffers right now in anticipation of a potential lights out? How much money does Franke have of his own invested?

 

[Beetle007]

Unfortunately, our investors can take their money and run. Our investors don't have any shareholders to deal with during the liquidation.

 

[kwick]

You guys sound like the same guys that voted for us to accept a substandard contract because they believed JS when he said he would shut the place down if we didn't sign.

Crazy speculation about AA's downfall, or USAirs, or United's , or even Spirit's is just negative crap, and serves no usefull purpose and only starts rumours, not based on any facts, that can actually lead to decreased sales and can be harmful.

Why not keep your discontent on private forums and not contribute to the problem.