NWA/Delta new Agreement. Mesaba?

[Superpilot92]

How about documented proof that an individual is capable of sticking with a program over a protracted period of time to achieve a defined accomplishment regardless of the perceived value?

It might not make you a better pilot but when an employer only has a very limited amount of time to decide on a future employee the applicant without the degree will have the appearance of a deadbeat.

Exactly! While i agree we should get paid more, a degree should be a requirement for any professional position. If someone doesnt want to get a degree then by all means they dont have to get it. I dont want to hear them complain though when they cant get the job they want because one of the Requirements cant be checked off on the application.

A degree is like anything else in this job, its a qualification. If Someone doesnt have a multi-engine license do you want to hear them complain they cant get a job flying a twin because they dont have a multi-ticket? Certificates are qualifications and if you dont have them all then your job opportunities me be limited. simple as that.

 

[Speedtape]

The vast majority of college degrees are either worthless by the time the individual gets to exercise the knowledge or become irrelevant due to career change. A degree in "Aviation Science" or whatever is no better or worse than anything else. If you want to focus on a career path get a masters.

Even an advanced degree will not matter unless you pursue a career in that area of study after obtaining the paper. It would be like earning your ratings, not gaining any further experience, and then pursuing a career path as a lawyer. At a later point, you decide law is not for you, and you decide to pursue flying again. Without the experience, you will be no better off and maybe actually worse off, than you were when you decided to pursue law after getting your ratings. It's not just about having the certifications, it's about having work experience in that field.

 

[Speedtape]

Having a degree in anything is better than having a degree in nothing--always. Generally, college graduates earn more than high school graduates. More doors are always open.

 

[Flybet3]

How about documented proof that an individual is capable of sticking with a program over a protracted period of time to achieve a defined accomplishment regardless of the perceived value?

Are you fu***ng serious? HA! That doesn't mean sh*t. Anyone can go to college, choose to major in ENGLISH and just show up to class, get drunk, high, party party party, maybe get laid and pass with a C-. Congratulations, you barely passed but who cares b/c you have proof of being able to stick with a program. Unless you got a Doctorate or a Masters in something that actually matters stop patting your self on the back and thinking that you're better than someone that couldn't go/afford/ or just didn't go to college. In my eyes anyone that sticks with aviation (airline, charter or crappy cargo ops) for more than 10 years and keeps their nose cleas has already shown me enough commitment to "sticking with a program". ( I also have a degree too)
Lets get real here. If I was interviewing an individual I would care more about their qualifications, references and work history.

 

[Flybet3]

The vast majority of college degrees are either worthless by the time the individual gets to exercise the knowledge or become irrelevant due to career change. A degree in "Aviation Science" or whatever is no better or worse than anything else. If you want to focus on a career path get a masters.

Now with this I agree, just get a Masters in something useful and USE the damnnn thing! Don't get a masters just b/c you wanna shine at fed ex and feel like a Scientist on flightinfo.

 

[Flybet3]

If Someone doesnt have a multi-engine license do you want to hear them complain they cant get a job flying a twin because they dont have a multi-ticket? Certificates are qualifications and if you dont have them all then your job opportunities me be limited. simple as that.

Terrible example by the way.

 

[Jetjockey]

The biggest argument for having a degree is; it allows you to get the next 'relevant' degree much quicker for your new career after you are furloughed.

Maybe the youth of America will take note. Run far, far away from this crap hole/abortion/train wreck called an aviation career.

p.s. I have a expensive degree from an aviation college. If I could get a refund, and 25 years back, I'd take it.

 

[Superpilot92]

Terrible example by the way.

How so? When an employer sets Minimums to apply is that not fair in your mind? When a job requires a type in order to qualify is that not fair? Whats the difference in having a requirement set by the employer that one must have a degree to be qualified?

A degree is just a piece of the overall qualification puzzle. There are those that have it and there are those that dont. For those of us who have a degree we can check that box in the qualification section of every application regardless of what the degree was in. simple as that

 

[flap operator]

Yes - Mesaba hired a good amount of low time guys, but they did not out number the guys/gals above our minimums. Further, if they had less than the minimums their application had to go through further screening and those that were hired below minimums all had a degree. I'm willing to bet that greater than 99% of our hew hires all have degrees or are in the process of completing one. Mesaba turned down more applicants than were actually hired during our massive hiring swing of 2007-2008, so I'd hardly call it dredging the bottom of the barrel. Therefore, I don't think Delta would really be dealing with a bunch of ignorant, uneducated and lowly time pilots if the flow actually continued.

It's incredible that mainline pilots still look down upon regional guys as if we're some sort of subspecies of the human race.

 

[MJ42]

Yes - Mesaba hired a good amount of low time guys, but they did not out number the guys/gals above our minimums. Further, if they had less than the minimums their application had to go through further screening and those that were hired below minimums all had a degree. I'm willing to bet that greater than 99% of our hew hires all have degrees or are in the process of completing one. Mesaba turned down more applicants than were actually hired during our massive hiring swing of 2007-2008, so I'd hardly call it dredging the bottom of the barrel. Therefore, I don't think Delta would really be dealing with a bunch of ignorant, uneducated and lowly time pilots if the flow actually continued.

It's incredible that mainline pilots still look down upon regional guys as if we're some sort of subspecies of the human race.

That's BS! Most of us have a regional background and worked very hard to get to a major. I don't think anyone was "looking down" on regional pilots. However, I posted my opinion that I think DAL will continue their past hiring practices, including eventually no flow agreements. DAL was never a fan of flow. Which flow UP has actually worked? Ask senior Eagle pilots.

Several regional pilots have posted on this thread in support of the benefit of higher education. Are they looking down on their peers who do not have a degree?

 

[CptMurf]

Which flow UP has actually worked? Ask senior Eagle pilots.

XJ's flow is a COMPLETELY different animal compared to Eagle's flow. There can only be as many flow downs as there was flow ups, right now 13 positions available. When the cycle reverses and NWA/DAL hires (after any down flow) the positions are reset and no flow down positions are available. It resets like this for every cycle. Compass's flow different story, but we had the ability to build in these protections and I think it is better for all.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

The flow through at both Mesaba and Compass require; 30 months experience at the regional, be a current captain, and meet any and all off the street hiring requirements ( flight times, degrees, background checks, ect.)

 

[xjhawk]

I bet flybet does not have a degree- just an observation

 

[Flybet3]

I bet flybet does not have a degree- just an observation

I bet you I do.

 

[ttuite]

The flow through at both Mesaba and Compass require; 30 months experience at the regional, be a current captain, and meet any and all off the street hiring requirements ( flight times, degrees, background checks, ect.)

Where is this written? I know a couple of guys at CP who do not have degrees. They will be very upset to hear that they need the degree. Very qualified individuals with a lot of international PIC. There was no mention of this when I interviewed so I don't imagine that they heard of it either. I hope that yo are wrong for their sake.