Delta Pilots Check Your Email....

[Fly4hire]

Does the flowdown include any pay protection? It would be pretty tough to start at 24$ an hour.

You would flow down to a 2nd year Capt position ~ $64/hr

 

[jetjockey#1]

Thanks that is reasonable.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That it is. It is good protection. I am not saying that there will be a furlough, all I am saying is that the bottom new hires will be easier to be furloughed. There will be seats at Compass for them and it will in essence cost the company nothing. Granted the company needs this flexibility, it just stinks when you may be the flex.
The other protections are fine and dandy, but this one really has teeth.
Not that we should or need to get in to an SLI discussion, but from my perspective it looks clear on how the bottom of the list MAY be done. (Not I know that is clear as mud, but there is a reason for that)

 

[GogglesPisano]

Can any NWA pilot expand a little on this flowdown. Which airlines are we talking about? Compass and Mesaba? Furloughees go to the bottom of the regional's list (reserve) but take the left seat (of what equipment) at 2nd year pay?

Just planning for the future is all.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Hard to call. Some things I had hoped for are missing:

• NWA's 75 hour reserve guarantee
• Unknown NWA baseline fleet number, means scope is not completely known and suggests NWA's fleet is - you know - shrinking by at least 28 jets soon
• Base displacement protections
• Commuting protections (see above)
• Positive space for commuting (see above)
• Displacement pay does not consider base protections (IE bumped off 767ER ATL, but you can hold it in NYC. You chose MD88 ATL. I don't think you are protected)

But, overall, I think our negotiators did a very good job. The junior guys are not going to be happy, but that is part of juniority.

Does the regional have to be hiring to flow down? Can you bid down (not that I would) or is it displacement only? Since hirings lead flying and displacements lag, could some pilots be caught seatless when the music stops?

I can see myself picking up 2 or 3 more type ratings unless management works the bids to avoid some of us chosing to live at the schoolhouse.

Feel sorry for those who serve on the grievance committee.... Section 1 B 40 (e)? No, I mean LOA 19-2008, Section 1 as revised by Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement's revised Section 1 B 40. The same as LOA19? Yes, but aren't we talking about a Mesa 76 seater in Hawaii? No, well, he had been trained by Hawaii but flies for Mesa now. Did they fly outside the State of Hawaii? Yes, to Mexico, with less than 100 seats per segment. But was Delta, or Hawaiian in a cooling off period. What?

My head hurts. Although the degree of specificity with Hawaiian and NWA rumors make me think of changing my screen name to Don Ho.

All Delta flying done by Delta pilots ... if you please.

Anyone have a theory that the "certificated in the United States" phrase that has been carried forward would render small jet restrictions moot in the event that cabotage was allowed? Just wondering.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Like I said there is a lot in here that is making my wonder why?
Check you e-mail fin.

 

[nwaredtail]

I am voting NO.

you will be in the minority

 

[Browntothebone]

Someone please post when able - Thanks.

Baja,

We need DEETS!!!

 

[nonstop]

I am voting NO.

You voted yes for LOA 19 but you're voting no for this? You realize this has gains above LOA 19 as well as allows Delta Airlines to realize the full benefits and synergies of the merger and possibly succeed as a company for everyones benefit.

Is there something I missed that was a step backward from LOA 19? Or did you envision, as your MEC so adamantly denied, that LOA 19 would be used as some kind of leverage in a SLI? Or do you think our leverage is going to improve over time?

Just curious what your rational is, and why you believe your MEC may be leading you astray.

 

[Fly4hire]

Can any NWA pilot expand a little on this flowdown. Which airlines are we talking about? Compass and Mesaba? Furloughees go to the bottom of the regional's list (reserve) but take the left seat (of what equipment) at 2nd year pay?

Just planning for the future is all.

You flow down in seniority order, not bottom of the list. The first pilot that is furloughed becomes seniority#1 at Compass until the next pilot flows and so on - we (soon to be us) own 100% of those slots. At XJ we only own the number that flowed up. PLUS as soon as you check out as a Captain there, you are instantly off probation (read the fine print )

The Compass flow is a HUGE disincentive for furloughs - NWA owns it 100% now, and DAL will at DCC.

Think about it - a new hire makes ~$43 hr at DCC, and each Co. has spent ~$70K already on new hire training. As soon as there is a furlough, that pilot goes to off-site training in Montreal with CAE for a E175 type ~$45K, and then gets a pay RAISE to $64 hr, is off probation, - just paid for by the company that was furloughing you to save $$.

Never mind the operational training and schedule chaos of flushing the existing Compass pilots that is currently only ~220 pilots forecast to 350 - with even a minor furlough of several hundred you could cycle 100% of the Compass pilot group.

This entire section of the NWA PWA comes over to benefit all of us, and remains intact with the sale of Compass as well. Personally I think this is a far greater incentive not to furlough than the flimsy "due to merger activities" in the JPWA and LOA 19.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Is there something I missed that was a step backward from LOA 19? Or did you envision, as your MEC so adamantly denied, that LOA 19 would be used as some kind of leverage in a SLI? Or do you think our leverage is going to improve over time?

Yes. NWA got higher pay rates for their smaller equipment. That was unexpected and potentially changes the dynamics for anyone on the MD88/90. Also, NWA's LOAs to deal with the expected over staffing is a change.

These changes do not have anything to do with bringing the NWA pilots to parity and no one wants anyone to be furloughed. But don't innocently come on the board and accuse the Delta pilots of using LOA 19 for leverage when clearly the NWA side made the changes to relative position.

It seems like a trend. The Delta pilots work to bring the NW pilots to parity. Then the NW pilots use the parity +1 as a bargaining position to take seniority from the Delta guys.

Please let us not get into a flame fest. It is what it is. If the Delta pilots had just leapfrogged the NWA pilots like the NWA guys just did, there would be demands for Prater not to endorse the LOA.

This might kill the JPWA vote, so if I were a NWA pilot, I would not throw more fuel on the fires of discontent. If you stir the pot enough the 88/90 guys will wake up and vote this down. Then we are all screwed.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

There has been big rumors at comair about merging with Mesaba or Compass. I could see as a big possibility now if the flowup/back language would remain. This would provide over 1500 availible seats for furloughed NWA/Delta pilots.

 

[DTW320]

Also, NWA's LOAs to deal with the expected over staffing is a change.

That is not part of the JPWA. DALPA is free to negotiate something similar for themselves with DAL management. Sound familiar?

 

[DTW320]

NWA got higher pay rates for their smaller equipment. That was unexpected and potentially changes the dynamics for anyone on the MD88/90.

Are you talking about the 319 at 124 seats vs. the 88 at 142?(the 319's were brought up to 320, 148 seat, rates......sound like any particular DL a/c?)BTW, in the JPWA the A320 rate represents only a 6.5% raise over current NWA. If anything, it should be NWA 320 pilots complaining about the inequity of the % raises among different a/c.

OK. Then we will need to upward adjust the rate for the 757-300's we bring since they have more seats than your 76ER's

 

[formerdal]

you will be in the minority

I don't think he will at Delta