One of many ALPA screw ups

[MCDU]

was not honoring PATCO. ALPA did not honor the strike in 81 and enabled the firing of 11000 controllers. ALPA pilots crossed the line and kept flying while scab controllers took PATCO controllers jobs. That was wrong. ALPA had a chance to gain much leverage as a real national Union by taking a Union stance, but instead took the easy way by not supporting the controllers and kept flying. Unions need to support Unions. That did not take place and we are all paying for it. Unions in this country have no leverage and ALPA is a poster child.

Marty

 

[STL717]

Unions need to support unions until a merger is involved then, look out.

 

[Colonel Savage]

was not honoring PATCO. ALPA did not honor the strike in 81 and enabled the firing of 11000 controllers...That was wrong...

That was an illegeal strike, was it not? Reagan warned the controllers if they struck that he would fire them did he not?

How could ALPA support an illegal strike? Legally, I mean...

 

[MCDU]

That was an illegeal strike, was it not? Reagan warned the controllers if they struck that he would fire them did he not?

How could ALPA support an illegal strike? Legally, I mean...

If you strike and you work a public sector job (ATC), they will call your strike illegal.
The airlines at the time were regulated and it was wrong to cross. Like I said, there is a reason why we have no leverage.

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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Illustration in a leaflet distributed by the Los Angeles local of PATCO during the strike. It reads "If the blast don't get you...the fallout will." The leaflet urged pilots, flight attendants and others to support the strike.[/FONT]​

 

[Colonel Savage]

...The airlines at the time were regulated...

Nooo....airlines were deregulated in 1978, strike was in 1981.

 

[MCDU]

Nooo....airlines were deregulated in 1978, strike was in 1981.

Yep, 1978.
My bad.

Thanks
Marty

 

[Colonel Savage]

Yep, 1978.
My bad.

Thanks
Marty

Does that change your stance on the issue?

 

[MCDU]

No, it does not.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Taft-Hartley.

The only possible way to circumvent T-H is through an interpretation of the Act issued in the "Father Brown Award" (1974)

The Award upheld the right of workers covered under the Railway Labor Act to sympathy strike in support of other RLA unions.

PATCO wasn't an RLA union.

ALPA probably could've done more to support them...but only if we (the institutional "we") would have been willing to break the law.

If your objective is to point out the mistakes, failures, boo boo's, and missed opportunities ALPA has had...we can run this thread 30 pages. All large organizations screw stuff up, just as individuals screw stuff up. ALPA has plenty of warts.

 

[NEDude]

The airlines need to take a lesson from the New York transit workers. They were told by a judge that the leaders would go to jail if there were an illegal strike. The union said "fxxx you" and walked anyway. The union ended up getting exactly what they wanted.

 

[Ocity]

Taft-Hartley.

The only possible way to circumvent T-H is through an interpretation of the Act issued in the "Father Brown Award" (1974)

The Award upheld the right of workers covered under the Railway Labor Act to sympathy strike in support of other RLA unions.

PATCO wasn't an RLA union.

ALPA probably could've done more to support them...but only if we (the institutional "we") would have been willing to break the law.

If your objective is to point out the mistakes, failures, boo boo's, and missed opportunities ALPA has had...we can run this thread 30 pages. All large organizations screw stuff up, just as individuals screw stuff up. ALPA has plenty of warts.

Come on now Razor, You know how these USAPA guys work. If a rule, law, or agreement, doesn't seem to fit into their world view of self omnipotence, then they ignore it. In their mind, Supporting an illegal job action with another illegal job action is just fine. "What's the problem?"

I'd say far more damage has been done to this profession by guys who can't see more than 24hrs into the future, and have no understanding of the word "consequences". Just because there are those out there, with highly selective memories and random ethics, dumping all of their personal failings upon ALPA doesn't make ALPA the bad guy.

PATCO should have been able to read the tea leaves and they didn't. Too bad.

 

[buckeyes95]

In my mind, there is no such thing as an illegal strike. Nobody has the right to tell you you can't fight for better wages and benefits. Yes, I understand that the law may say it is illegal, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Sometimes the only thing management understands is a strike.

 

[Ocity]

In my mind, there is no such thing as an illegal strike. Nobody has the right to tell you you can't fight for better wages and benefits. Yes, I understand that the law may say it is illegal, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Sometimes the only thing management understands is a strike.

I understand the feeling, however, do you really think it's okay to walk off the job and by doing so you endanger the lives of tens of thousands of people in the air? You think the public and the law are on your side? PATCO failed. Not ALPA or anyone else.

 

[pilotyip]

81 was not a good year to an airline strike. High fuel prices had depressed the US economy and put a great strain on the airlines. Braniff was almost out of business as were Pam Am and TWA, CAL was in the throws of here comes Frankie. My reserve unit for the first time in its history was fully manned in every open pilot position with unemployed airline pilots. Besides what is the limit of supporting other strikes, when the teamster truckers strike at UPS, do the FedEx pilot refuse to fly?

 

[ualdriver]

was not honoring PATCO. ALPA did not honor the strike in 81 and enabled the firing of 11000 controllers. ALPA pilots crossed the line and kept flying while scab controllers took PATCO controllers jobs. That was wrong. ALPA had a chance to gain much leverage as a real national Union by taking a Union stance, but instead took the easy way by not supporting the controllers and kept flying. Unions need to support Unions. That did not take place and we are all paying for it. Unions in this country have no leverage and ALPA is a poster child.

Marty

There's quite a bit written on this very topic in "Flying the Line II." Of course as is typical for most flightinfo ALPA bashers who probably only get their information from flightinfo.com, the subject was a bit more complicated than you let on, and in fact O'Donnell (I think it was him at the time, correct me if I'm wrong) tried to help out PATCO through his connections at the White House but unfortunately was unsuccessful. In fact, I think the author of the above mentioned book states that most ALPA pilots WERE NOT in support of the PATCO strike, so O'Donnell was walking a fine line between the pilots he represented and the damage such a strike might cause to our profession at the time. He knew that if the ATC strike went on, that ATC capacity restrictions could cause airlines further financial damage and therefore hurt his pilots through furloughs. Remember, the economy in the early 80's wasn't exactly going gangbusters. But he also knew that the pilots he represented didn't support the PATCO strike. So what is an ALPA leader to do?

Again, it's a bit more complicated then you let on. Perish the thought, but perhaps you could crack open a book on the topic and get some more factual information? In fact, if you were to read Flying the Line II, you could find plenty of more stuff to bash ALPA about, and perhaps you could start a new ALPA bashing thread based on more factual information? Your statement about ALPA not having any levarage concering the PATCO strike is completely untrue.