How Many Will NWA Furlough?

[udaman]

Or not! What do ya ladies and ghents think?

 

[d.fitz]

What do ya ladies and ghents think?

I think you are FI's newest tool!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I would think not many at all. With the new work rules that they NWA groups will be under with the joint PWA there is a need for 400+ more pilots. If it appears that the SLI will drag on for a few more years, then it is possible, but if this can be done by mid next year it would cost to much to retrain, downgrade and let people go.
For now I am saying None. Now if DAL cuts back more, that is when it starts to get interesting.

 

[flyupder]

I think udaman is referring to the announcement of large capacity cuts ....

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN1738975620080617?rpc=44

NEW YORK, June 17 (Reuters) - Northwest Airlines Corp (NWA.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) on Tuesday said it would reduce the number of seats for sale in the fourth quarter and cut its work force as it struggles with sky-high fuel costs.
Northwest, which has agreed to be acquired by Delta Air Lines Inc (DAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), is the latest of the major U.S. carriers to announce cutbacks as they grapple with unprecedented oil prices that have doubled in the past year.
Northwest said it would cut mainline capacity in the fourth quarter by 8.5 percent to 9.5 percent. This includes reductions previously announced in April.
"In response to these extraordinary fuel costs, we are taking prudent actions to reduce our capacity and right-size the airline," Northwest Chief Executive Doug Steenland said in a statement. This will allow us to better match our capacity to customer demand as airfares, by necessity, must increase."
The airline said it has not yet finalized the impact of the cuts on employees and that it would look first to voluntary programs to reach the resulting head-count reductions.
TAKING ACTION
Northwest said it would remove 14 B757s and Airbus narrowbody aircraft from its fleet, while its DC-9 fleet would be reduced to 61 by the end of the year, down from 94 at the start of 2008.
Northwest said it continues to take action to improve revenue with added fuel surcharges, fare and fee increases but did not elaborate.
"If fuel continues to be challenging, we clearly have the wherewithal to take additional action," Steenland said at the Merrill Lynch Global Transportation conference.
Steenland noted that AMR Corp's (AMR.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) American Airlines, UAL Corp's (UAUA.O: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) United Airlines and US Airways Group Inc (LCC.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) each have announced plans to be begin charging passengers to check a single bag. That move has drawn the ire of air passengers, but experts predict other airlines will match it.
Steenland said Northwest has not decided whether to add a similar fee.
After Northwest and Delta made public their merger proposal in April, industry experts predicted more mergers would follow. But the most likely candidates, United Airlines and US Airways, called off their talks last month without a deal.
The industry focus now appears to be on various strategic alliances and large-scale capacity cuts.
Last week, US Airways said it would reduce its work force by 1,700, cut more capacity than planned and charge new fees.
Continental Airlines Inc (CAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) said last week it would cut flights from its hubs to more than 40 domestic and international destinations as of Sept. 3.
And United Airlines has announced plans to slash jobs and flights, following a similar move by American Airlines.
(Additional reporting by Kyle Peterson in Chicago) (Reporting by Mark McSherry; Editing by Mark Porter, Andre Grenon, Leslie Gevirtz)

 

[udaman]

Thank You flyupder....thats what I was talking about. No bashing ment fitz....I might even work for the same company you do.

 

[Superpilot92]

I think udaman is referring to the announcement of large capacity cuts ....

Large Cuts? Its a minor adjustment to the original reduction. In fact it actually says we are keeping additional DC9s than we thought.

 

[JohnDoe]

IMHO:

400-475 unless any large retirements or buyout-type programs happen.

 

[MJ42]

IMHO:

400-475 unless any large retirements or buyout-type programs happen.

Well, apparently there are 400 with their "paperwork" being processed, ready to retire when they find out about the equity share. These guys are ready to walk as soon as they find out. Hopefully this will save the bottom guys. I find it hard to believe NWA would furlough when they could just wait a few months and get a large number of senior pilots to retire once the merger is closed. Who knows??? I sure as hell don't!

 

[filejw]

IMHO:

400-475 unless any large retirements or buyout-type programs happen.

Well maybe. If the veritable cap went down to 75 hr from the 85/88 everybody is flying that could save some folks.

 

[Truckdriver]

Well, apparently there are 400 with their "paperwork" being processed, ready to retire when they find out about the equity share. These guys are ready to walk as soon as they find out. Hopefully this will save the bottom guys. I find it hard to believe NWA would furlough when they could just wait a few months and get a large number of senior pilots to retire once the merger is closed. Who knows??? I sure as hell don't!

I'll believe it when I see it. These senior guys are gonna stick around and work a couple easy trips per month and call in sick or drop trips if they can for the rest of the month. If you were in the top 10% with PBS you wouldn't retire. They will have a great part time job for the next five years then they will leave unless they can get the age extended to 67. I'll bet less than 20% of those over age 60 will leave.

 

[MJ42]

I'll believe it when I see it. These senior guys are gonna stick around and work a couple easy trips per month and call in sick or drop trips if they can for the rest of the month. If you were in the top 10% with PBS you wouldn't retire. They will have a great part time job for the next five years then they will leave unless they can get the age extended to 67. I'll bet less than 20% of those over age 60 will leave.

I agree, for the most part. But one thing to consider is that the senior DC-9 guys are not interested in(and intimidated by) going to an automated aircraft. The pace at which the DC-9's retire will determine whether some of these guys stick around for a "retirement job". We''ll soon find out...

 

[Muskycat]

I'll believe it when I see it. These senior guys are gonna stick around and work a couple easy trips per month and call in sick or drop trips if they can for the rest of the month. If you were in the top 10% with PBS you wouldn't retire. They will have a great part time job for the next five years then they will leave unless they can get the age extended to 67. I'll bet less than 20% of those over age 60 will leave.

That is what I've been hearing from my friends and neighbors who are NWA. Not many plan on leaving after age 60. I can't blame them. I think the biggest fear is possibly another around of BK and then having the pension stripped. A lot can happen in 4 to 5 years..
They may be working for free compared to what their pension would pay them. However, the have the added insurance of a paycheck coming in.

 

[Superpilot92]

I'll believe it when I see it. These senior guys are gonna stick around and work a couple easy trips per month and call in sick or drop trips if they can for the rest of the month. If you were in the top 10% with PBS you wouldn't retire. They will have a great part time job for the next five years then they will leave unless they can get the age extended to 67. I'll bet less than 20% of those over age 60 will leave.

Thats the problem staffing is going to have. The gummers are going to be unreliable employees who can punch out any time they want or can go on LTD as part of their "retirement". Thanks age 65 uke:FLY TILL YOU DIE!!

 

[filejw]

I'll believe it when I see it. These senior guys are gonna stick around and work a couple easy trips per month and call in sick or drop trips if they can for the rest of the month. If you were in the top 10% with PBS you wouldn't retire. They will have a great part time job for the next five years then they will leave unless they can get the age extended to 67. I'll bet less than 20% of those over age 60 will leave.

Mostly you are right. I'm 56 still enjoy coming to work and make about 70 grand more than I would if I retired early. I don't think Ill go past 60 but who can tell, as long as I'm having fun....did enough of the 13 day legs in the snow in a DC9 to the UP to give up having fun with this..

 

[Muskycat]

Mostly you are right. I'm 56 still enjoy coming to work and make about 70 grand more than I would if I retired early. I don't think Ill go past 60 but who can tell, as long as I'm having fun....did enough of the 13 day legs in the snow in a DC9 to the UP to give up having fun with this..

All the power to you bro. No reason to stop until 65.
I'm in 30's and will never hold against a guy or gal for flying til their 65. They didn't make the rule, go for it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

When it all comes down to it, it is a numbers game. Anyone with a sane mind would not WANT to work past 60. The fact is with wage and benefits cuts, a few ex wives most guys to do not have a choice. Most of the DAL guys that retired early are not on the beach or on the kinks. They are flying for some one somewhere. They need the money. The current job that the senior guys have in all reality is ten times better than most could find anywhere else. If it were me I would stay. With the best schedules of your life, tons of sick time, adding money to the bank at this rate is an easy choice. Plus, their wives would probably kill them if they quit. Everyone knows how annoying we are when we are puttering around the house all of the time.... WE NEED to go to work.

 

[hockeypilot44]

So back to the original post. How many NWA pilots will be furloughed due to decreasing capacity and very few retirements?

 

[Superpilot92]

So back to the original post. How many NWA pilots will be furloughed due to decreasing capacity and very few retirements?

none imp:

 

[Schwanker]

So back to the original post. How many NWA pilots will be furloughed due to decreasing capacity and very few retirements?

1406!

 

[contrail67]

So back to the original post. How many NWA pilots will be furloughed due to decreasing capacity and very few retirements?

Whatever it is....off to Compass they go.

 

[hockeypilot44]

none imp:

I hope you're right.

 

[RedRum]

Whatever it is....off to Compass they go.

That's very true as things sit right now.

That's why this week is so vitally important. From what I have heard the framework of the original NWA/Compass flow through LOA remained in place in the February agreement. That was a slightly different environment. (Oil only $110 a barrel.)

I am sure the DAL pilots are somewhat interested in this flying to (as they should be). But make no mistake, this flying was bought and paid for by junior NWA pilots who were furloughed more than 5 years. Plain and simple. I personally hope it doesn't come down to this, for the sake of everyone's careers.

I am confident there are concerted efforts are being undertaken to address this issue fairly this week. Perhaps the negotiators at DALPA realize that the E-175 is the direct replacement for AT LEAST all of the DC9-30 flying. That has always been the intent of NWA management and it has been proven by their lack of desire to obtain a 100+ seat aircraft at the mainline level.

It is intersting that NWA comes out with actual airplane numbers in their cuts and Delta is being very vague about what cuts are needed and where. I am sure that casued a little pause in the negotiating this week. Northwest Airlines management HATES Northwest Pilots. PERIOD. They don't give a rip and I could honestly see them trying to harm us with these negotiations. Victim mentality--maybe but there is reason after reason to believe they do not have our best interests at heart.

 

[General Lee]

That's very true as things sit right now.

That's why this week is so vitally important. From what I have heard the framework of the original NWA/Compass flow through LOA remained in place in the February agreement. That was a slightly different environment. (Oil only $110 a barrel.)

I am sure the DAL pilots are somewhat interested in this flying to (as they should be). But make no mistake, this flying was bought and paid for by junior NWA pilots who were furloughed more than 5 years. Plain and simple. I personally hope it doesn't come down to this, for the sake of everyone's careers.

I am confident there are concerted efforts are being undertaken to address this issue fairly this week. Perhaps the negotiators at DALPA realize that the E-175 is the direct replacement for AT LEAST all of the DC9-30 flying. That has always been the intent of NWA management and it has been proven by their lack of desire to obtain a 100+ seat aircraft at the mainline level.

It is intersting that NWA comes out with actual airplane numbers in their cuts and Delta is being very vague about what cuts are needed and where. I am sure that casued a little pause in the negotiating this week. Northwest Airlines management HATES Northwest Pilots. PERIOD. They don't give a rip and I could honestly see them trying to harm us with these negotiations. Victim mentality--maybe but there is reason after reason to believe they do not have our best interests at heart.

I think management wants a deal done so they can say "everything is right.......can we merge now?" I think BOTH of our MECs have NO EXCUSES when it comes to future scope, and it will be both of their faults if things get worse on that front. If the E175 was brought in to cover the DC9 flying, I want all of those E175s to be Compass pilots with Delta numbers.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DYLIN]

That's very true as things sit right now.

That's why this week is so vitally important. From what I have heard the framework of the original NWA/Compass flow through LOA remained in place in the February agreement. That was a slightly different environment. (Oil only $110 a barrel.)

I am sure the DAL pilots are somewhat interested in this flying to (as they should be). But make no mistake, this flying was bought and paid for by junior NWA pilots who were furloughed more than 5 years. Plain and simple. I personally hope it doesn't come down to this, for the sake of everyone's careers.

I am confident there are concerted efforts are being undertaken to address this issue fairly this week. Perhaps the negotiators at DALPA realize that the E-175 is the direct replacement for AT LEAST all of the DC9-30 flying. That has always been the intent of NWA management and it has been proven by their lack of desire to obtain a 100+ seat aircraft at the mainline level.

It is intersting that NWA comes out with actual airplane numbers in their cuts and Delta is being very vague about what cuts are needed and where. I am sure that casued a little pause in the negotiating this week. Northwest Airlines management HATES Northwest Pilots. PERIOD. They don't give a rip and I could honestly see them trying to harm us with these negotiations. Victim mentality--maybe but there is reason after reason to believe they do not have our best interests at heart.

Do you think flowback/flowthrough is likely to change with the newest contract proposal that will come out?

Think anything significant will come out in the next, say, seven days or so?

 

[FDJ2]

.)

I am sure the DAL pilots are somewhat interested in this flying to (as they should be). But make no mistake, this flying was bought and paid for by junior NWA pilots who were furloughed more than 5 years. Plain and simple. I personally hope it doesn't come down to this, for the sake of everyone's careers.

We want parity from day one.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

If after the SLI your seniority/juniority gets you furloughed I agree 100% that you should flow to compass.

We want parity from day one.

 

[jester757]

So will DAL guys be inline to go to compass once the SLI is intergrated and furloughs come??

 

[clippyrip]

So will DAL guys be inline to go to compass once the SLI is intergrated and furloughs come??

I think that is how its going to be set up. Hopefully we adjust the scope and make that mainline flying again and then we staple the good folks at Compass onto the new list.

 

[nwaredtail]

With the current negotiating environment, I would guess that DAL's staffing formulas will change, thus requiring less training expense, upgrades, etc. 2-4 more pilots per aircraft is a bit rich compared to NWA.

I would also think that the "training" requirements to dump all the Compass pilots and retrain NWA/DAL pilots will make for the Compass Flow down go away.

We are in a concessionary environment and the DAL/NWA ALPA units have proven history of jumping at the first offer.

Not looking forward to the new PWA.

 

[General Lee]

With the current negotiating environment, I would guess that DAL's staffing formulas will change, thus requiring less training expense, upgrades, etc. 2-4 more pilots per aircraft is a bit rich compared to NWA.

I would also think that the "training" requirements to dump all the Compass pilots and retrain NWA/DAL pilots will make for the Compass Flow down go away.

We are in a concessionary environment and the DAL/NWA ALPA units have proven history of jumping at the first offer.

Not looking forward to the new PWA.

No, I think management NEEDS a contract done prior to the closing of the deal. That is what they have been saying. We could stretch this out for a long time and make everyone mad, etc, and they want everything to appear perfect. So, I think this will help us rather than hurt. Will we all get 50% wage increases? Probably not. But, I think we aren't in a corner like we were when negotiating in BK. The NWA guys will get parity, we may get a 5% raise, and some scope and rules will get better. I don't think we can ask for the Moon though, but the scope and Compass stuff is darn important.


Bye Bye--General Lee