A319 Take Off at Austin question...

[Fernando]

Yesterday i saw an A319 take off at KAUS runway 17r from the G intersection (heres the chart http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAUS )

I was wondering if this was too risky or can be considered OK for the type of plane, what do you think?

Was it too risky? i saw dirt floating around when they
got airbone

 

[Correcting]

Hard to say. I'm sure they had an airport analysis and numbers that said they could do it. That's still a fair amount of distance from that intersection. Looks like around 7,000 feet. There are lots of airports where an A319 flies that have less than 7000-foot runways.

Look at Orange County (KSNA) or Chicago Midway (KMDW) as an example.

All sorts of 757's, 737'a, A319's and 20's, MD80's going in to those places.

 

[zkmayo]

Yesterday i saw an A319 take off at KAUS runway 17r from the G intersection (heres the chart http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAUS )

I was wondering if this was too risky or can be considered OK for the type of plane, what do you think?

Was it too risky? i saw dirt floating around when they
got airbone

Hard to say... ultimately the PIC's call. The old adage about nothing less worthless than runway behind you always applies, however. It being a 319,its prob safe to assume it was a 121 operator which means that a w/b and t/o distance had to be computed prior to takeoff. That req distance would take into acct temp, weight, press.alt, avail runway distance, accelerate/stop senarios, runway conditions, slope, icing, and 2nd segment climb issues and prob a bunch of other things I forgot.

All that being said, as long as its legal for the distance avail (derived from t/o and w/b data) its ultimately the PIC's call. However, you'd be hard pressed to defend that call should you abort and not be able to stop the airplane for some reason and the FAA comes calling (technically shouldnt happen if abort below V1, timely and proper reject procedure used, and above t/o data computation was correct and used).

However, what's legal doesnt necessarily make it safe. My personal priorities have always been safety first, legal a very close second, and finally on-time/pax comfort a distant third.

319s/20s fly out of 7000ish ft all the time (LGA, BUR, DCA) and that looks about what int G is. Again, PIC's perogative.

 

[get2flyin]

When the numbers come off of the ACARS printer, if the runway and intersection is listed, you're good to go. We could pull out the manuals and try to work out the numbers but the companies dispatch program grinds up the applicable temp, weight, wind, etc, data and says yes or no. It's just about the black and white.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

When the numbers come off of the ACARS printer, if the runway and intersection is listed, you're good to go. We could pull out the manuals and try to work out the numbers but the companies dispatch program grinds up the applicable temp, weight, wind, etc, data and says yes or no. It's just about the black and white.

If you don't have obstacles considered, the onboard runarounds wouldn't be accurate.
Also, not everybody gets stuff off the ACARS, some have onboard performance software, JB and SWA, for example.

 

[get2flyin]

If you don't have obstacles considered, the onboard runarounds wouldn't be accurate.
Also, not everybody gets stuff off the ACARS, some have onboard performance software, JB and SWA, for example.

Ok, then let me rephrase that. "When the numbers come off of the ACARS printer, if the runway and intersection is listed, WE *(meaning my company) are good to go."

I have no idea what anybody else on the Airbus does. Also, I think the SIDs dictate what the obstacle limits are. If the specific airport has some obstacle that impedes the 200'/mile *(digging WAY back into my teaching days so don't quote that) cone, then that would be noted in the SID and a minimum climb gradient could be determined. The subsequent performance requirement could then be determined from the onboard manual.

On second thought, maybe I just made that entire thing up....my CFI has expired and thus my FAR/AIM knowledge is a little rusty.

I guess I'll just go if dispatch says I can.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

I have no idea what anybody else on the Airbus does. Also, I think the SIDs dictate what the obstacle limits are. If the specific airport has some obstacle that impedes the 200'/mile *(digging WAY back into my teaching days so don't quote that) cone, then that would be noted in the SID and a minimum climb gradient could be determined. The subsequent performance requirement could then be determined from the onboard manual.

On second thought, maybe I just made that entire thing up....my CFI has expired and thus my FAR/AIM knowledge is a little rusty.

I guess I'll just go if dispatch says I can.

I agree with the dispatch comment, but I think that if you'll think about it a minute, the SID theory isn't correct. The perf is also predicated on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th segment climbs, as well as the runway limits.

 

[D-Bo]

Yesterday i saw an A319 take off at KAUS runway 17r from the G intersection (heres the chart http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAUS )

I was wondering if this was too risky or can be considered OK for the type of plane, what do you think?

Was it too risky? i saw dirt floating around when they
got airbone

I'm sure it was legal but I'm also sure it was someone trying way TOO hard to save fuel for their airline. Who was it? F9 or UAL? I bet it wasn't UAL. Or is there another Airbus operator into KAUS?

Someone out there thinks their couple hundred pounds, if even that, of taxi fuel saved is gonna determine the fate of their airline.

No one out there can single handedly save their airline but you can save your own ass. Maybe they get paid more the more they stick out their neck?

 

[Fernando]

It was a Frontier i believe

 

[oldxfr8dog]

I'm sure it was legal but I'm also sure it was someone trying way TOO hard to save fuel for their airline. Who was it? F9 or UAL? I bet it wasn't UAL. Or is there another Airbus operator into KAUS?

Someone out there thinks their couple hundred pounds, if even that, of taxi fuel saved is gonna determine the fate of their airline.

No one out there can single handedly save their airline but you can save your own ass. Maybe they get paid more the more they stick out their neck?

D Bo, you have the big picture.

I always ask myself, when faced with such (non) decisions, "How will I explain this at the investigation?".

Edit: Or, maybe that airplane was empty. If very light, maybe extra margin was available.
I don't like to second guess another crew. I wasn't there.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Was it an eagle or a deer on the tail? Certainly there is a difference between a UAUA plane and FNT!!!

 

[CatfishVT9]

Yesterday i saw an A319 take off at KAUS runway 17r from the G intersection (heres the chart http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAUS )

I was wondering if this was too risky or can be considered OK for the type of plane, what do you think?

Was it too risky? i saw dirt floating around when they
got airbone

You're not the guy who was on my airplane about a year ago and screamed out "ABORT!!!!" because he thought the takeoff roll was too long, are you? He was a low time pilot who knew a little too much.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

You're not the guy who was on my airplane about a year ago and screamed out "ABORT!!!!" because he thought the takeoff roll was too long, are you? He was a low time pilot who knew a little too much.

Oh my! What a bonehead!

 

[Mickey D]

I saw this 319 a few months back at Key West (EYW)

Citizen Staff
Spirit Airlines is considering adding Key West to its routes and this week sent a 144-seat plane to test the runway with a series of touch-and-gos. The Miramar-based airline will meet with Monroe County airport officials next week to discuss whether Spirit’s A319 Airbus will become a frequent flier to the Southernmost City. “We haven’t heard anything officially from them that they’re coming, but we’re certainly being considered,” Monroe County Airports Director Peter Horton said of both the Key West and Marathon airports. “If they do come in with the frequency we hope for, this would be the biggest news for the airport since Delta began direct flights to Atlanta” in 2002. Spirit’s Airbus carries twice as many passengers as Delta’s, yet is only 4 feet longer, so either runway should accommodate them, Horton said. The plane’s wings help it maneuver on shorter runways. Company spokeswoman Alison Russell would not comment on the possibility of Spirit flying to Key West, saying only that the Airbus was testing what’s possible for shorter runway operations, those less than 5,000 feet. Key West’s runway is 4,800 feet, while Marathon’s is 5,000 feet. The airline’s visit to Key West was a good sign, Horton said. Spirit, which is looking for 10 new South Florida cities from which to operate, could begin its route as early as February if it decides on Key West. The low-cost airline, whose affiliate Spirit Vacations offers Key West package deals, flies mostly to destinations in the Bahamas, Caribbean and Latin America. In January, Spirit purchased 30 new A319 Airbus planes. “When coupled with high productivity in all parts of our operation, these new airplanes affirm Spirit’s position as the leading low-cost carrier to the Caribbean and Latin America, as well as provide the basis for a sound and rational growth plan into the next decade,” President and CEO Ben Baldanza said in a press release.

 

[XShuttle]

We operate out of JAC all the time 6800' of runway and about 6500' elevation. For those of you worried about what to say during the investigation do you go max blast all the time and ask for full length when using 32L in ORD?