Latest NJA upgrade time

[gunfyter]

yup......7 years at least.

You could be right... but don't forget attrition... I think 2 or 3 %

 

[brokeflyer]

yes but you need to factor in the guys that are upgrading now may be switchin fleets for better schedule, etc in 3 yrs from now. And so on.....

 

[Diesel]

Wolf
crying and longing for the smell of a GV :bawling:

Stop bitching the IV smells just fine, like stale farts and frayed wires.

 

[av8tor4239]

3 years, 5 years.. 7 years.. IT IS ALL A BUNCH OF CRAP.

You can not predict upgrade... It is a waste of time. There are too many variables. Economy, strength of the company, accidents, terrorist, attrition, hiring, etc. etc. etc..

I can remember when I was at the regional and I was hired in 2002, they told me when I was hired 18 months to upgrade to captain, then in indoc, 18 months to upgrade to captain, then on my first recurrent, 18 months to upgrade, then on my second recurrent 18 months to upgrade, then..... 4.5 years later I upgrade.. then quit 3 months after upgrade to come here... LOL

 

[captain dad]

I know one thing for sure. It is going to be several years no matter what. Even if they hired like crazy we can only process about 350 - 400 pilots a year through out the training system and FSI. Add the attrition of around 80 to 100 and you get a net gain of only 300 additional seniority numbers per year.

So 2/3 are captains, that means we will need 4600 + pilots on before number 2800 is upgraded. But by that time(say four years from now) today's number 2800 will actually be 2400 due to attrition so we will actually only need 4000 pilots total before he or she upgrades. That means 1200 pilots which equals about 3 - 4 years minimum. Of course this changes daily and has many seen and unforeseen variables like A/C deliveries, A/C sales, A/C retirements, etc... and you can estimate until you are blue in the face.

In the end don't work for a company based on upgrade time. If you are so worried about upgrade go work for the regionals. I hear they are still hiring street captains.

I work here because it is a great company and they treat us right. The upgrade will come when it comes. Until then, life is good.

 

[jherk02]

Never... EVER take a job based on when you upgrade. I've said this time and time again; "Big Picture" people.

Chasing the left is the fastest way to the unemployment line... which by the way puts you back in the right seat.

Wolf
crying and longing for the smell of a GV :bawling:

But you have to at least consider it.

With the salaries of most of the legacy Captain jobs being decreased in value, I think it is almost more important to be in the left seat at any competitive company than in the right seat at the current "sexy" company. I think the industry is leveling out in salaries and it won't be worth the risk to give up a left seat at one company to jump to the right seat at another as long as your company is at least competitive.

I do think it is easier to look at the maximum upgrade time when making your decision rather than trusting whatever the company says is the current or projected upgrade.

Remember, once you are a Captain you have 50% layoff protection, nothing stops you from the highest paycheck, and the only thing that you are risking is that the company you work for continues to stay competitive.

And so...NetJets is the best fractional for now, but I bet 10 years from now we will be able to point to a group of pilots that was able to pick NJA's biggest future competitor, got hired, and upgraded quickly. I bet their career and paycheck will be much better than those that hop on the NJA seniority list and sit in the right seat for a long time.

The question is, do you feel lucky, punk?

My 2 cents...

 

[FLYLOW22]

I Concur.

:laugh:

Yes, we all do.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

How is that possible??? I've been here 3 years, 1 month. This person you are talking about probably was in my basic indoc class, and I'm still 20 numbers away.

Are you sure about his date of hire??? I'm not trying to discredit you, maybe you heard wrong....

CALRepublic,

A number of the pilots on the most recent C560XL PIC award have a hire date of April 2005. Therefore, once training commences these pilots will have been in SIC status for 3 years and 3 months.

IDEtoNJA

 

[DAS at 10/250]

The question is, do you feel lucky, punk?

Nice! It's always good to find an excuse to use an Eastwood line. I like it.

 

[fischman]

But you have to at least consider it.

With the salaries of most of the legacy Captain jobs being decreased in value, I think it is almost more important to be in the left seat at any competitive company than in the right seat at the current "sexy" company. I think the industry is leveling out in salaries and it won't be worth the risk to give up a left seat at one company to jump to the right seat at another as long as your company is at least competitive.

I do think it is easier to look at the maximum upgrade time when making your decision rather than trusting whatever the company says is the current or projected upgrade.

Remember, once you are a Captain you have 50% layoff protection, nothing stops you from the highest paycheck, and the only thing that you are risking is that the company you work for continues to stay competitive.

And so...NetJets is the best fractional for now, but I bet 10 years from now we will be able to point to a group of pilots that was able to pick NJA's biggest future competitor, got hired, and upgraded quickly. I bet their career and paycheck will be much better than those that hop on the NJA seniority list and sit in the right seat for a long time.

The question is, do you feel lucky, punk?

My 2 cents...

Tell that to the Skybus guys.

I agree. NJA is the best fractional out there now. I think you are being overly ambitious with a compteitor being a serious threat in 10 years. There are serious threats out there, but they are not from Flex, CS, FLOPS, XOJet, Avant Air, etc... They come from within.

The biggest threat to NJA is complacancy. The day we stop treating our owners like they expect to be treated is the day they go away. NJA is not the cheapest mode of travel, but we are the driving force in the industry.

In short, if we stop re-defining ourselves and the industry, someone else is going to. We MUST be our largest critic and give the owners the level of safety and luxury they are paying for.

THAT is the threat.

 

[captain dad]

Tell that to the Skybus guys.

I agree. NJA is the best fractional out there now. I think you are being overly ambitious with a compteitor being a serious threat in 10 years. There are serious threats out there, but they are not from Flex, CS, FLOPS, XOJet, Avant Air, etc... They come from within.

The biggest threat to NJA is complacancy. The day we stop treating our owners like they expect to be treated is the day they go away. NJA is not the cheapest mode of travel, but we are the driving force in the industry.

In short, if we stop re-defining ourselves and the industry, someone else is going to. We MUST be our largest critic and give the owners the level of safety and luxury they are paying for.

THAT is the threat.

Well played Sir!

 

[acaTerry]

Well at least FOs aren't making $27,000 anymore. The wait is less painful now.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Nice! It's always good to find an excuse to use an Eastwood line. I like it.

Has that toyota or mac crapped out on ya yet! Hope you are doing well..Life is pretty good here.

 

[Mooneymite]

Slowing hiring/slowing up-grades.

Have you taken into account the training efficiencies of the new training campus and the wait list we have for Owners?

I'd say that when one improves the other will too.

Since NJA is not totally immune to the price of fuel, I think hiring will slow and up-grade times will significantly lengthen. :bawling:

As a fractional operator, we are "somewhat" protected, but the dramatic increase in costs is going to negatively impact our growth just like every other jet operator.

Posted Jet A price in EWR last weekend was $8.44! Even though NJA may not be paying that price, our customers will be getting significantly higher fuel charges and some of our "marginal" owners will drop out.

I think we'll see the line of people waiting to buy a share at NJA shorten considerably as present customers sell their shares. There will be a consequent slowing in NJA hiring and consequent stretching out of up-grade times.

As someone posted earlier: predicting up-grade time is impossible; however, we're still better off here than at an airline!

The really bad news is that our recent pay-raise through IBB is being rapidly eaten away since "real inflation" (CPI computed according to the formula prior to 1986) is clipping along at almost 12%! It's going to be a l-o-n-g four years without a raise, particularly in the co-pilot's seat.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Has that toyota or mac crapped out on ya yet! Hope you are doing well..Life is pretty good here.

Not yet! I've been able to convert a few more NJA'ers to the Mac world though.

Now if we could just replace this Honeywell setup with something from Apple.