Southwest "Captain" WTFO?

[afhercdriver]

You're kidding... Who the hell is advocating this?

This would simply reduce the number of CA's they have to upgrade to cover the existing flying.

At a company like Southwest that won't jeopardize safety by building rear-loaded red-eyes and such, they staff an appropriate number of CA's so I wouldn't imagine it's such a big deal.

However, with a company that staffs thin as a course of doing business and saving money, giving them a way to leave F/O's on F/O pay and just giving them the ability to pick up CA time when they have extra CA flying in open time seems like a free ticket to always staff the CA seat too low for operations and letting the senior F/O's pick up the slack.

Lear,

When the F/O's pick up a Capt line they are paid Capt wages. It is really a good deal for the senior F/O's.

Jim

 

[ASADFW7]

Okay this is now the stupidest thread about SWA on Flightinfo.

 

[spitfire1500]

Southwest "Captain" ....

He said he was with SWA 8 years. That would put him as a 'Lance' Captain status. Meaning that he is a First Officer (notice the 3 stripes), but he is Captain qualified. Top 8% of the F/O list. He therefore flies a F/O line, but can pick up Captain trips in open time, giveaway, etc. Hope this explains the apparent discrepancy.

So they have a "Lance" Captain bid. You wear three stripes you're an FO.....not an "uh uh duh Captain".

 

[PCL_128]

Lear,

When the F/O's pick up a Capt line they are paid Capt wages. It is really a good deal for the senior F/O's.

Jim

A "good deal" for senior FOs would be a real upgrade.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

What a Fag.uke:

Umm.....whatever!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp5fI8OAdg4&feature=related

 

[XJohXJ]

Yeah he probably was making the video for his kid's school. Good on him for that.

However, posting the video on the internet in your FO uniform while calling yourself a captain is just asking for the FI gods to make fun of you.

Umm, who says the guy in the video is the one who posted the video? Anyone can post anything on YouTube.

Most likely scenario: The guy made the video for the best of intentions, probably for a school.

Someone else posted the video, maybe his wife, or kid, or whoever produced the video.

But, after all, this is flight info..

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

When the F/O's pick up a Capt line they are paid Capt wages. It is really a good deal for the senior F/O's.

Jim

Maybe. I can see how being able to be in the top 10% of the F/O seniority list, getting every holiday off, then getting to drop your trips and cherry pick CA trips during your previous working days for CA rates while still getting those holidays off would be a good deal... For that particular F/O.

The rest of the F/O's who WANT to upgrade would suffer. Why? Because they're NOT getting their holidays AND the company isn't upgrading F/O's to CA because those "Lance Captains" are picking up enough of the slack to where they don't have to upgrade people.

Like I said, at a company that staffs well enough so they don't rely on this as a staffing tool, no problem.

At other companies who WOULD use it as a staffing tool, it's a great deal for the company and for the senior 5-10% of the F/O seniority list, but the junior CA's who are stuck on reserve because of reduced upgrades and the F/O's who want to upgrade but can't because of this program wouldn't likely see it as such a "great deal".

I'd go for it if there were "trigger points" to REQUIRE upgrades and transparency to watch the process. Specifically, if the amount of CA open time picked up by "Lance Captains" exceeded 80 hours in a domicile, the company would be required to immediately upgrade one F/O for every 80 hours of CA open time picked up by Lance Captains.

If there's enough flying to build a reasonable flying line, then they can upgrade someone.

Who is it that has a signature line: "If you're not paranoid, then you haven't been paying attention."?

 

[skiandsurf]

A "good deal" for senior FOs would be a real upgrade.

Not always.

Stay as a senior FO. Get the vacations that you want, the schedules that you want, etc. Now, drop your FO trips, and pick-up captain open trips. See, you work around your schedule.

Or, upgrade to a junior captain. Leftover vacations, lines....probably reserve line.

SWA calls them "Lance Captains", other companies call them "Velcro Captains".

 

[PCL_128]

Not always.

Stay as a senior FO. Get the vacations that you want, the schedules that you want, etc. Now, drop your FO trips, and pick-up captain open trips. See, you work around your schedule.

Or, upgrade to a junior captain. Leftover vacations, lines....probably reserve line.

Lear has already pointed out the problems with this. If his suggestion of upgrade "triggers" was incorporated, then I wouldn't have any problems with it. Otherwise, I'm not a fan and would vote NO on a TA that included it.

 

[GuppyWN]

The lance captain program works great, IMO. It allows the FO's that want to upgrade to leapfrog over the FO's that want to stay as a lance. The lance get's to cherry pick and the guy junior to him gets to be a captain - something he wouldn't have been had it not been for the lance.

Eleminating the lance program would simply mean more reserve lines. As it is the lances pick up from other line holders, which in turn gives them the flexibility to trade like Charles Schwab giving them a better quality of life.

The lance program is a win win.

Gup

 

[FR8dognit]

Some pilots choose to stay as Lance Captains even when they are senior enough to upgrade. I know of at least one that made way more last year than the average Capt. It is a good deal for everyone except the senior Captains that lose out on the VJA (1.5 pay) all the lances pick up at extra fly/daily open time (straight pay).

 

[avbug]

I thought he was very well spoken, talked in simple terms and covered topics such as the need to study math...clearly someone's school project.

Who knows who put it on the web? Who cares?

It sounds like a credible, decent "stay in school, don't do drugs" narrative about a possible career choice, which puts emphasis on the positive aspects of flying for an airline.

Seems a shame that some are so offended by a grade school project.

 

[Whataburger]

Probably for "Adopt a Pilot?"
I think at the expense of looking like a goofball, we as parents make that sacrifice for the betterment of our children and their peers. My guess is that this dude puts more emphasis on being a mentor vs. being cool. I dont know this dude, but he's not exactly making another "topgun" video in a one-sh!tty.

 

[Lear70]

The lance captain program works great, IMO. It allows the FO's that want to upgrade to leapfrog over the FO's that want to stay as a lance. The lance get's to cherry pick and the guy junior to him gets to be a captain - something he wouldn't have been had it not been for the lance.

Eleminating the lance program would simply mean more reserve lines. As it is the lances pick up from other line holders, which in turn gives them the flexibility to trade like Charles Schwab giving them a better quality of life.

The lance program is a win win.

Gup

It is at Southwest, can't argue about that.

I know you probably can't recall working for a company that will use involuntary extensions, junior assignments, and downline drafts EVERY MONTH as a STAFFING TOOL to keep from upgrading F/O's and, thus, having to hire more pilots.

Sometimes that's what happens here. THAT is why I don't want to see a Lance Captain program without upgrade trigger points and trasnparency.

Very few airlines will consistently choose to do the right thing for their employees, even if it costs more to do it. Southwest happens to be one of them.

 

[737 Pylt]

I would say that based on how boring this dufus is, its "Bravodoosh," but we all know Bravodoosh is a FNG at SWA! Either way, what a tool!

737