5/20/08 Southwest Airlines Announces More New Service in Denver

[contrail67]

"We will continue to grow in Denver as it is a major focal point for us, and the market is responding exceptionally well to our service," said Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly.

AWESOME! Guys, enjoy your success.

You will successfully drive Ual out of Denver, put F9 out of business and now you will OWN DENVER.

Congrats, now finally, you can raise the fares because you are the only player in town.

Btw, the $39 fares and "kids fly free" campaign is genius. You guys have the BEST management. Sleep well tonight knowing, you guys are the "NEW SKYGODS" in the USA.

CYA

And SWA will take over the world!! That post actually made me laugh.

 

[waveflyer]

I think the national senority list is the dumbest idea out there. You pick to work for a company for a reason. If it does not work out you try somewhere else. Nobody forces someone to work for a particular carrier.

Yeah reddog- you're right. just pick up and go. that's how it works?-- who cares about the poverty level wages and complete loss of seniority.

I get it pcl- the winner's in this game will always place an undo amount of their own success on their own shoulders and therefore not want to give up what they 'earned'- i really do-- but i also really think ALPA's only saving grace is an NSL-

We're at a point in our careers where if you don't fly for SWA, FDX or UPS=- you feel like you've lost this game... Name another career where you start so completely OVER just by changing jobs? Where your experience counts for nothing?

Reddog- swa is kicking tail and continuing to do so-- but you need some perspective if you don't think you're one or two bad ceo's from being in the same position as a usair pilot. or maybe from an F9 pilot. And if that happens, i really doubt you'll find it to be so easy, UNDER OUR SYSTEM THAT WE CREATED, to just pick up and move on. Correct me if i'm wrong, but if my scenario happens to you in 10 years, am i right? Will you happily leave swa on to 'greener' pastures?

Again, i don't need an NSL-- maybe upping 1st year pay to something livable would do it-- but we have to make it easier to change companies or we will continue towards rock bottom- the problem is that we don't have leverage industry wide b/c 60% of us are willing to cut off our left nut to keep from re-entering the job market. The solution to that could be many things- but it's not in keeping up the same old b.s.

 

[PCL_128]

but i also really think ALPA's only saving grace is an NSL-

I don't think so. There are smaller steps that can be taken. For instance, almost all of the regional MECs are currently working together to develop what they are calling "portable longevity." While not as complete as an NSL, it would definitely be a big step in the right direction, and even more importantly, it is something that is actually achievable in the foreseeable future. An NSL would certainly be wonderful, but it's unachievable at this point, so we need to focus on what is achievable.

We're at a point in our careers where if you don't fly for SWA, FDX or UPS=- you feel like you've lost this game

Really? I don't think so. I'm pretty damned happy where I am. I have a lot of friends at DAL that are pretty happy where they are. SWA, FDX, and UPS are certainly great jobs, but they aren't the only good jobs out there.

 

[ultrarunner]

Here's the link to the WN route map. I was surprised to see the number of non-stop flights out of DEN.
http://southwest.com/travel_center/routemap_dyn.html

Yep, nearly the number on N/S flights f9 operates out of DEN.

 

[waveflyer]

sorry for the thread drift-- the point isn't a NSL-- it's just that i understand animal tails frustration w/ being a real accomplished pilot and the only opportunities available will be bottom of the list at poverty wages-- and that's after being real good at the interviewing game. i just feel for him- while at the same time not blaming WN- I'm nothing but happy for WN's success... but from a pilot market standpoint- i could see the F9's pilot's point.

 

[AnimalTale]

You guys, I am a CAPITALIST! I am not being sarcastic. I am pointing out the truth and I am truly congratulating you.

I f I were SWA Management, I would do the same thing. It is a Free Market.

My only point of frustration is:

During war or a game, if one is wounded or about to die, let them do it with respect (you know who Im talking about)------> DO NOT RUB IT IN OR GLOAT, Have respect! The airline industry is a weird industry.

CYA

 

[Benhuntn]

Tanker go clean your window you're bumping into stupid statements again.

 

[RedDogC130]

You guys, I am a CAPITALIST! I am not being sarcastic. I am pointing out the truth and I am truly congratulating you.

I f I were SWA Management, I would do the same thing. It is a Free Market.

My only point of frustration is:

During war or a game, if one is wounded or about to die, let them do it with respect (you know who Im talking about)------> DO NOT RUB IT IN OR GLOAT, Have respect! The airline industry is a weird industry.

CYA

That is half the problem...nobody is gloating. We are posting news events that affect the industry..they affect you a little more than the next guy. I have not read a post recently that a SWA has said anything bad about your misfortune or our company sucess. You may read into whatever you want but nobody is gloating. Remember here today and gone tommorow. it sure could be SWa and for me I sure hope not. The airlines my parents worked at are no longer here and they were the top at the time. These day you have to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

As for the NSL...mabye if you explain it to me in your view I may understand it but it sounds pretty dumb from what I know about it...enlighten me please

 

[PCL_128]

Seriously, read a few SWA threads at random and you'll have no problem finding some guys gloating. I'm sure they aren't representative of your pilot group as a whole, but they're definitely on here.

 

[waveflyer]

reddog- thx for the perspective- sorry your family went through that- my grand-father's too- about 6 years from retirement. the way you described it- it wouldn't work- and it would be dumb- my version of it would allow you to transfer companies in the same way you transfer bases and equipment now. That version has issues- but overall- as long as aviation grew- we'd all see success and it would stop the infighting. I'm not even saying that's my preferred method- but i feel strongly that what we have now is about as bad a system as there is-- any way we went would be better.

Animal tail- well said- I actually don't feel pity for you- don't confuse that- i'd never disrespect you that way-- i just strongly disagree with 1st year pay and how end-loaded our career is bc of the leverage that gives to management's industry wide. There's nothing more capitalist than what i represent. I just happen to believe that it's a part of capitalism to compete for labor- and our seniority system interferes with that.

 

[RedDogC130]

my version of it would allow you to transfer companies in the same way you transfer bases and equipment now. That version has issues- but overall- as long as aviation grew- we'd all see success and it would stop the infighting. I'm not even saying that's my preferred method- but i feel strongly that what we have now is about as bad a system as there is-- any way we went would be better.
.

So when airlines compete the top guys on the list could go to the "more sucessful" companies leaving the bottom guys to the failing one's? That does not make sense to me. That is the joy of the free world. You chose to go to whatever airline you want or can get a job at. It is like that in every industry in the world. how about the mortgage business....you think the guys at the failing firms are bithcing just like us. They are my brother-in-law is one of them. It is not just our industry.

 

[AnimalTale]

reddog- thx for the perspective- sorry your family went through that- my grand-father's too- about 6 years from retirement. the way you described it- it wouldn't work- and it would be dumb- my version of it would allow you to transfer companies in the same way you transfer bases and equipment now. That version has issues- but overall- as long as aviation grew- we'd all see success and it would stop the infighting. I'm not even saying that's my preferred method- but i feel strongly that what we have now is about as bad a system as there is-- any way we went would be better.

Animal tail- well said- I actually don't feel pity for you- don't confuse that- i'd never disrespect you that way-- i just strongly disagree with 1st year pay and how end-loaded our career is bc of the leverage that gives to management's industry wide. There's nothing more capitalist than what i represent. I just happen to believe that it's a part of capitalism to compete for labor- and our seniority system interferes with that.

Me too! I have no pity either. This is business. I just hope we can raise fares.

 

[AnimalTale]

reddog- thx for the perspective- sorry your family went through that- my grand-father's too- about 6 years from retirement. the way you described it- it wouldn't work- and it would be dumb- my version of it would allow you to transfer companies in the same way you transfer bases and equipment now. That version has issues- but overall- as long as aviation grew- we'd all see success and it would stop the infighting. I'm not even saying that's my preferred method- but i feel strongly that what we have now is about as bad a system as there is-- any way we went would be better.

Animal tail- well said- I actually don't feel pity for you- don't confuse that- i'd never disrespect you that way-- i just strongly disagree with 1st year pay and how end-loaded our career is bc of the leverage that gives to management's industry wide. There's nothing more capitalist than what i represent. I just happen to believe that it's a part of capitalism to compete for labor- and our seniority system interferes with that.

Me too! I have no pity either. This is business. I just hope we can raise fares.


Cya

 

[vance]

Gimme a break!

Seriously, read a few SWA threads at random and you'll have no problem finding some guys gloating. I'm sure they aren't representative of your pilot group as a whole, but they're definitely on here.

I'm tired of the BS. Out of respect for the F9 folks I'll only address $hit for brains like yourself. None of us invented this industry and a whole hell of a lot of us worked hard to get where we are. I'm assuming you're probably in the same boat, but obviously you can't help spewing b.s. without engaging your brain.

A national seniority list would be a priority I'd see coming from ALPA and the regionals. ALPA because they're so far behind the 8-ball that they can't help but entertain every dumba$$ idea that comes on the table. The regionals because they're all about to see consolidation on top of consolidation (it sounds like Skywest is trying to make the process start with XJT). I mean think about it, employees working at a pre-designated airline whether they wanted to or not. Pilots with no loyalty to a company to the point that they feel no desire to leave a hint of loyalty or appreciation to their company and just to move on to whatever company they can hold. I'm sure CEO's will go for that.

If you perceive SWA guys gloating on the forum then grow a set and call them out individually, but don't sit here and try and flame the F9 guys while sitting behind the security of your computer like some ball-less wonder.

We all chose to interview/stay at the airline of our choice (or even the airline industry for that much). To say we didn't is a lie. I know everyone is so damn enlightened these days that they love to point fingers and successful companies like SWA and treat them like Wal-Mart, because Wal-Mart is pure evil in their minds. The fact is that SWA started as a David getting his a$$ handed to him by Goliath and has been fighting ever since to stay ahead (or as quoted by others "to manage in good times just like they would in bad"). A lot of airlines had fuel hedges, but they sold them off for cash. SWA didn't and has used this momentum to grow more and more relative in the domestic marketplace. I know this statement seems (once again) evil, but the fact is it's the kind of business the airline industry has become. One last point, SWA entered and left the DEN and SFO markets once before due to them being cost prohibitive. Who was there saying that they were being bullied and should've been allowed to stay.

SWA is an awesome place to work and is made better because we work as a team and our management respects it's employees. If you want to work there bad enough I'm sure you could get on (I say this only because they've hired folks on their 3rd and 4th interviews). Or you can sit at your PC in your underwear and try and undermind every move we make. Either way, I'll be at work this weekend.

Once again, Good luck to the F9 folks. I've ridden on your jumpseat more than once and appreciate the lift and your great attitudes!

 

[hockeypilot44]

I'm tired of the BS. Out of respect for the F9 folks I'll only address $hit for brains like yourself. None of us invented this industry and a whole hell of a lot of us worked hard to get where we are. I'm assuming you're probably in the same boat, but obviously you can't help spewing b.s. without engaging your brain.

A national seniority list would be a priority I'd see coming from ALPA and the regionals. ALPA because they're so far behind the 8-ball that they can't help but entertain every dumba$$ idea that comes on the table. The regionals because they're all about to see consolidation on top of consolidation (it sounds like Skywest is trying to make the process start with XJT). I mean think about it, employees working at a pre-designated airline whether they wanted to or not. Pilots with no loyalty to a company to the point that they feel no desire to leave a hint of loyalty or appreciation to their company and just to move on to whatever company they can hold. I'm sure CEO's will go for that.

If you perceive SWA guys gloating on the forum then grow a set and call them out individually, but don't sit here and try and flame the F9 guys while sitting behind the security of your computer like some ball-less wonder.

We all chose to interview/stay at the airline of our choice (or even the airline industry for that much). To say we didn't is a lie. I know everyone is so damn enlightened these days that they love to point fingers and successful companies like SWA and treat them like Wal-Mart, because Wal-Mart is pure evil in their minds. The fact is that SWA started as a David getting his a$$ handed to him by Goliath and has been fighting ever since to stay ahead (or as quoted by others "to manage in good times just like they would in bad"). A lot of airlines had fuel hedges, but they sold them off for cash. SWA didn't and has used this momentum to grow more and more relative in the domestic marketplace. I know this statement seems (once again) evil, but the fact is it's the kind of business the airline industry has become. One last point, SWA entered and left the DEN and SFO markets once before due to them being cost prohibitive. Who was there saying that they were being bullied and should've been allowed to stay.

SWA is an awesome place to work and is made better because we work as a team and our management respects it's employees. If you want to work there bad enough I'm sure you could get on (I say this only because they've hired folks on their 3rd and 4th interviews). Or you can sit at your PC in your underwear and try and undermind every move we make. Either way, I'll be at work this weekend.

Once again, Good luck to the F9 folks. I've ridden on your jumpseat more than once and appreciate the lift and your great attitudes!

PCL_128 is a pilot for AirTran. Before Airtran, he worked for Pinnacle. Before Pinnacle, he paid Gulfstream to fly Beech 1900's.

 

[BSkin]

PCL_128 is a pilot for AirTran. Before Airtran, he worked for Pinnacle. Before Pinnacle, he paid Gulfstream to fly Beech 1900's.

Yeah? I'm a pilot at Airtran and flew 1900's, what's your point? Didn't pay, but still, what's your point? If true, so what. He had money available to him to do it, instead of trudging through instructing, banner-flying, or military. I chose military, but can't blame people doing the Gulfstream, et al., thing!

Good luck F9 guys!

 

[waveflyer]

vance- that's a lot of anger for a wn pilot.
again- your a winner now--- but what happens in other industries is that if you have experience and your company changes paths- you look at other paths and can (if you are good and talented) negotiate more responsibility and pay. You can find new "cheese" as the book would say. But b/c of our self-induced seniority system- we don't have that option... "sure buddy, love to have you, bottom of the list at poverty wages and weak or no benefits to start" -- Again-- NSL or no-- i believe that we should not END-LOAD this career so much... That worked when we all could reasonably expect our company to last our career... now... who can be so arrogant? Even you. (though i don't predict it, i've read my history books and seen company cultures change)

My brother has security that comes from his own education, experience, and talent. My education, experience, and talent does not buy me the same thing b/c seniority rewards one thing only: Time at a company....not ability- some deserve that reward- others don't-- and until someone acknowledges that major airline after major airline took OFFENSIVE paycuts to save their pecking order at their airline- i'll keep saying it's a problem. Except SWA, UPS, and FDX- it's offensive to me what the whole lot of you are willing to fly for. But instead of blaming you- i blame this seniority system and how it creates an environment of us BAILING out bad airline after bad airline b/c we can't afford to have our airline go under no matter how much management's performance deserves it. Is that 'capitalist' to keep funding w/ our money and retirement industry management's failures? How long will we do that? Do we need further proof that they will keep taking and cutting pay and benefits until we are willing to let the airline go under?

Loyalty to a company is a funny thing--- w/ the exception of SWA- do you really think there's an airline out there that has any amount of loyalty to you? So, i won't judge you- b/c swa has been a stand up place their entire existence- they, and you-deserve their success- but don't judge me b/c i recognize that virtually every management team not named southwest or fedex has pissed on us all- w/ government's help.

But maybe i shouldn't give all of you a pass. Our seniority system solves more problems than it creates. Maybe the problem is how so many of this and the recently retired failed to think long term- didn't protect scope to the end- and didn't stand strong enough-- maybe i should just blame the 60% of us that are weak and uninvolved to no end.

 

[PCL_128]

But maybe i shouldn't give all of you a pass. Our seniority system solves more problems than it creates. Maybe the problem is how so many of this and the recently retired failed to think long term- didn't protect scope to the end- and didn't stand strong enough-- maybe i should just blame the 60% of us that are weak and uninvolved to no end.

Great post!

 

[turn&pull]

A NSL is a naive idea.

When my brother who is an MBA moves laterally between jobs, he negotiates his salary based upon his certain skill set. If he is really skilled AND a good negotiator he will receive a good pay package and he most likely will make MORE than someone at the same company already doing the job. In the business world it is always easier to negotiate the initial pay package than it is the long term pay raises. They have to FIGHT for that. Often times people will leave one company, go to another for more pay and then get rehired by the original company later for much better than they made before.

As a pilot at a major airline we are all equally qualified. We either "cut the muster" or we don't. Sure you have Captains and FOs but it has nothing to do with our capabilities. An airline would have no incentive to hire a 20yr guy who would come in at a high pay scale if they could hire a first year guy who meets the same qualifications.

I you want an airline industry where you can go laterally between companies and basically get the same pay, you need to get rid of the unions and let every pilot negotiate his own pay package and have no union protection. Of course we all know what would happen then. Employers would hire the pilots who would work for the least amount of money and of course we all know there are plenty of those guys out there. Heck, I might even be one of them.

....And pilot wages would plummit.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[relief tube]

I think the national senority list is the dumbest idea out there. You pick to work for a company for a reason. If it does not work out you try somewhere else. Nobody forces someone to work for a particular carrier.

about the easiest thing to say when your avitar is a southwest tail.

A "New routes out of denver" post when everyone else is shrinking and F9 and UAL are struggling to stay kicking- very classy.

 

[RedDogC130]

about the easiest thing to say when your avitar is a southwest tail.

A "New routes out of denver" post when everyone else is shrinking and F9 and UAL are struggling to stay kicking- very classy.

Can't handle a little industry news...go get a tissue

 

[Tanker Clown]

Wait until SWA's hedges run out. Then your arrogance will be repaid 10 fold.

 

[MILPILOT17]

Wait until SWA's hedges run out. Then your arrogance will be repaid 10 fold.

You're killing me!!!!!

 

[B727Driver]

When their hedges run out there won't be anyone left. Being hedged at $51 per is a great position to be in. Kudos SWA.

 

[waveflyer]

you guys are all right- everyone will stop flying airplanes and the entire economy will switch back to horse & buggy.

No- what's going to happen- is we're going to find out how low major airline pilots will fly airplanes for as another round of bankruptcies and less than friendly judges visit us again...where will you take a stand? BC 55% cuts weren't enough last time...

 

[BSkin]

Can't handle a little industry news...go get a tissue

Dude, happy your at SWA, kudos, however don't be a complete Ahole!