A new way for ALPA to collect dues

[spinproof]

Wow! What a witty, yet informative comeback!

With how quickly some of you ALPA supporters have jumped on me, it's no wonder a lot of pilots are getting a bad taste in their mouths for ALPA. I'm no ALPA insider, and no veteran here, but as a line pilot I can describe how this looks from my position. And it looks bad.

Now if all of you want to just defend and ignore, go for it. But as a lowly line pilot, I thought I'd share my opinion of the issue. Take it for what it's worth.

You are spot on La Capitana!! Always Losing Pilots Assets.

 

[800Dog]

The airlines that shutdown were the smallest portion of the dues lost. The largest portion, USAirways, was caused largely by Prater, Mr. politics before policy himself.

I guess some of us just see things differently. USAirways pilots and the arbitrator had nothing to do with it?

 

[Colonel Savage]

...With how quickly some of you ALPA supporters have jumped on me...

You might want to rephrase that?

Or not, either way...;-)

 

[vetrider]

I guess some of us just see things differently. USAirways pilots and the arbitrator had nothing to do with it?

The result may very well have been the same. However, the chips would have fallen where they may, and that would have been that. He would have followed policy.

However, the way he played, he left himself open. All that jacking around did several things. It legitimized, rightly or wrongly, the east's view that there was a problem, and it gave them all kinds of time to spool things up for the 'drive.' Not to mention, it got the ball rolling for fubar after fubar, ie. Philly rep trusteeship, etc. which gave the 'drive' that much more momentum and self justification.

Sure, things could have been the same ultimately. But Prater's chicken ******************** activity left him and the ALPA wide open. Once you start pulling that stuff, people see that you can't be counted on. Sorta like east pilots, actually.

 

[AlbieF15]

Fact is the BOD will be voting on a new Sec/Treasurer soon with a yes/no vote to approve the nomination. If you are not happy, contact your MEC and let them know.

Box--your salary chart is dated as a lot of those names are no longer in positions of leadership. However, Cohen and York probably earn every penny--they are part of ALPA legal/negotiation team.

I think the market should determine the other rates--I'll save that debate for the BOD and members at large.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Some ideas...

1. Take the postage paid PAC envelopes they put in the magazine and write them a note on it and put it in the mailbox....

2. Go off dues checkoff....and make them send you a bill....then take your time paying them....

3. Once you get close to retirement or leaving for a non-ALPA carrier stop paying dues the last 6 months...You'll be gone before they can get you on the Agency Shop termination...

Time for us "to take it back"........

 

[eaglesview]

The one and only bright spot in the possible merge with USAir will be the opportunity to vote ALPA off UAL.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Who said we were merging with United ?

PHXFLYR

 

[glasspilot1]

Not to mention the lawsuits!

>> ITEM 5: ALPA National Updates
5a: In light of the recent or impending loss of a large number of pilots from ALPA, including those from US Airways, America West, Skyway, Aloha, ATA, and Champion, ALPA faces a significant shortfall
in its operating budget from diminished dues revenues. <<

And the further budget shortfall when ALPA loses the lawsuits from the former TWA and Emery pilot groups. Have I forgot any other ALPO suits?

 

[tomgoodman]

Fair is fair

In the interest of fairness and with consideration of the fiscal shortfall, the Council and Board adopted the proposed resolutions to subject all 401(k) contributions to ALPA dues.

"In the interest of fairness", if retirement compensation is subject to dues, shouldn't retirees be entitled to vote on contracts, LOAs, and in union officer elections?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Tom:

I think they are taking the money going in, not coming out. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

That would really shake things up, a few thousand non flying voting members. Wonder if scheduling would be much of a negotiating priority?

Joe:

How's cheating your union out of dues "taking it back?"

You can always opt out and pay less. What did they work out in Miller v. ALPA?

 

[§kyye Candy]

5a: In light of the recent or impending loss of a large number of pilots from ALPA, including those from US Airways, America West, Skyway, Aloha, ATA, and Champion, ALPA faces a significant shortfall in its operating budget from diminished dues revenues.

This has probably already been said, but... gee, maybe they should have taken that under consideration before they let airline mgt. groups hijack this whole industry.

 

[eaglesview]

Who said we were merging with United ?

PHXFLYR

I hope your right.

 

[f15boomer]

This has probably already been said, but... gee, maybe they should have taken that under consideration before they let airline mgt. groups hijack this whole industry.[/qu

This really makes me LOL. I am so glad ALPO no longer has my money.

 

[Papa Woody]

the day my 401(k) becomes subject to ALPA withholding, I begin decert procedures at my airline.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Does it count as a threeway...

if you're getting fvcked by management AND your union???

 

[Cobra17]

Miss Jackson if you're nasty....

Getting a good return on those ALPA dues?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z0h_c9eH-8

 

[tomgoodman]

That's even worse

I think they are taking the money going in, not coming out.

"Taking the money going in" amounts to pre-payment of dues, costing the pilot all of the growth that money would have earned in his 401k until retirement. Company contributions to DB or DC pension plans could be the next dues target.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Tom:

Joe:

How's cheating your union out of dues "taking it back?"

You can always opt out and pay less. What did they work out in Miller v. ALPA?

"Cheating" my union out of dues?

YGTBSM!

The union is a failure....the leadership won't take paycuts...and I am supposed to pay more in dues? I don't think so.....

This may get the ball rolling on some more decertification movements.....Not to smart....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe,

If you are a member, you have agreed to pay dues. If you are not a member, you pay less, just the cost of your representation and contract enforcement (you probably know better than I do).

Most of what gets done is volunteer work. Overall, ALPA is a bargain because of pilots serving pilots.

Again, if you want to go, adios. We'll miss you.

I think this will be an issue at the 2008 BOD. Typical...., with mergers, scope and real problems, we are going to make the debate about 0.00175, or less than 2/10th's of 1% of the average pilot's income?

 

[SplitBar]

Depends on how you look at it Fins. This year I will pay $2000 in ALPA dues and will also max out my 401K. Under the new system, my ALPA dues would be $2350. That is an almost 20% increase in my ALPA dues. It penalizes those who put a lot of $$ into 401K's. For those who don't put any money into 401K's, they will pay no extra dues. Not that I am in favor or raising ALPA dues, but IF they must raise more money, why not just raise dues from 1.93 (or whatever it is??) to 2.00% and only asses W-2 earnings. Then it's a fair "accross the board" increase for everyone. There is so much thriftless spending within ALPA I think they should just rebudget and work within the means of their income.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Splitbar:

I agree they should work within their income. But the last ten years have been challenging to say the least. I'd prefer a special assessment to get things back on track, then return to status quo.

Or, raise dues the old fashioned way ... by negotiating better contracts. Some of the working agreements out there are shameful.

 

[SplitBar]

Finns,

My gripe is that the only pilots who are going to subsidize ALPA's shortfall are those who put money into 401K's. It should be an accross the board increase for all pilots, not just those who contribute to a 401K plan.

 

[j41driver]

"In the interest of fairness", if retirement compensation is subject to dues, shouldn't retirees be entitled to vote on contracts, LOAs, and in union officer elections?

It is retirement contributions.

 

[j41driver]

Typical...., with mergers, scope and real problems, we are going to make the debate about 0.00175, or less than 2/10th's of 1% of the average pilot's income?

The point is that the average pilot income has come down quite a bit in recent years while the ALPA salaries have remained the same or gone up. Just like airline mgmt, if ALPA wants more $$ back from the pilots they should have to share in the cuts.

 

[j41driver]

Depends on how you look at it Fins. This year I will pay $2000 in ALPA dues and will also max out my 401K.

Does your employer give a 401K match? If so, you could lower your 401K contribution to the min amount to get all of the matching funds and put the rest into an IRA or similar investment. That would minimize the increase in dues paid.

Like someone else mentioned...it would be most fair to just raise the base % so it affects all of the membership equally.

 

[SplitBar]

Does your employer give a 401K match? If so, you could lower your 401K contribution to the min amount to get all of the matching funds and put the rest into an IRA or similar investment. That would minimize the increase in dues paid.

Like someone else mentioned...it would be most fair to just raise the base % so it affects all of the membership equally.

Contributions to IRA's don't lower your W-2 earnings since they are made with after tax dollars.

 

[steveg]

Let it not be forgotten this is because of usapa.

usapa now wants to charge MORE than alpa, even with the 401k debacle. So much for saving money.

If you see a usair usapa guy wearing a yellow lanyard, thank him for increasing your dues.

Just another in the LONG list of usair pilots ruining this profession..............................

ps.

It's not ALPA. Prater sucks, however, usapa is to blame for costing ALL of us millions of dollars.

 

[tomgoodman]

Compensation comes from contributions

It is retirement contributions.

Sure, but those contributions will be smaller if dues are taken out, reducing the pilot's retirement compensation. He will have "pre-paid" dues, years in advance, on income he won't receive until he has no union representation or vote. If that is OK, why not pre-collect dues on contributions to his pension as well?
Even the IRS doesn't tax income until you get it.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Chunky takes a 60% cut, along with entire OVER paid staff. 60% before I kick in 1 cent more. I don't care. No representation equals No pay.