A letter to Leo

[jetjockey#1]

I understand your position here but that wouldn't work. With a combined fleet the business plans change on both sides. If oil keeps going up and planes are parked they would come off the master fleet list. Ya the DC-9s may be parked first but 88's would be parked just as fast at DAL on a stand alone plan. So I don't think what your saying would be fair. What would be fair is a relative seniority list all the way to the bottom. If planes are parked on the combined fleet regardless of what type it is both sides should feel the negative effects.

I agree with you 100%. Now try to convince the NWA guys. They seem to think that because they were hired in 2001 but they are 93% onto 99% of their list, they should be senior to a 92% DAL pilot hired in 07.

 

[nonstop]

Well, I for one saw the ACTUAL NWALPA proposal and the DALPA proposal. Don't ask me how but, I did. I am not bound by any non-disclosure agreements so I guess I can spout off a little. So, here goes...

With the DALPA proposal I would be at +/- 0% of my present prosition. No change.

With the NWALPA proposal I would be at -.97% of my current position. Almost one percent decrease in overall seniority. But, I am near the bottom so the bottom I will still be.

However, with the NWAPLA SLI, the top 400 were all NWA. The next 400 were DAL. After that most of the next 8000ish were +6% for NWA and -6% for DAL. The bottom 2000 were almost all DAL with a few NWA such as the recent new-hires.

I think the windfall was squarely with NWA on that one.

You guys are masters at looking at tomorrow, where'd you fall 5 years from now? 10 years? I saw the proposals too, the DAL proposals ended up with THOUSANDS of widebody CA years gained at the expense of the NWA pilots. Even the NWA proposals still had a net gain of widebody CA years for DAL pilots. Unfortunately Moak wasn't interested in an equal agreement, or doesn't have the capacity to analyze data 5-20 years down the road.

 

[JohnQ]

If the shoe were on the other foot, NWA pilots would not have done this. I can honestly say this. Partly due to the fact that our management team has never done any favors for us.

Well I have my doubts about that statement. But just because we can work better with our mgmt means we have to accept the lowest common denominator and assume a NWA-style contract and labor/mgmt relationship? I don't get it.

So when is Lee Moak up for his position on the DAL Board of Directors? He really dissapointed a lot of people here at NWA. Has your membership tried to inhibit his move to management? I would be willing to bet that any such effort to prevent Moak's "upgrade" to the BOD would be met with a lot of resistance on his part. He is laying the foundation right now and breaking down solidarity within this association of pilots.

I seriously doubt that Moak intends to do any such thing. If he does then I will eat crow and join you in the Moak-bashing. As it is, he just ensured that the DAL pilots get "insurance" against a USAir-style scenario of endless conflict and no contractual improvements. If your side wants to drag this thing out for three or four years (and I DON'T want to see that) a la USAir...then at least the DAL guys will get something. BTW, there is nothing preventing your side with negotiating a similar LOA with the NWA mgmt side of the house--I would congratulate you if you did so! I surely wouldn't hold it against you, and if you got more than LOA 19...more power to you!

I still see the next 2 days as a golden opportunity to get this thing back in the right direction. Hopefully all Letter 19 was intended to do is leverage us back into more direct negotiations.

Agreed. But don't think of it as "punitive" or even "pressure" against the NWA side to somehow accept a DAL-inspired SLI screwing. I perceive it as nothing of the sort. It is merely insurance against an unnecessarily drawn-out process, and no one at DAL even wants it to take effect! We want a new combined joint (and more lucrative) contract to supersede it by the DCC.

We, at NWA, have a lot to bring to the table and we are not a US Airways-type company. We aren't drawing a line in the sand and we don't want to create a windfall. We just want what is fair. Heck we are coming out ahead right off the bat getting rid of Doug Steenland. We are bringing $3 BIL to the table. $3BIL in blood money extracted from contract employees on our last TA.

Absolutely. You guys run a great operation (despite Steenland) and I consider this a merger of equals. Your Asia routes combined with our southern US, Europe, and L. America, will create a great airline--NWA is 50% of it!

Just my honest opinion. Like i said, it's nothing personal. I hope we can get something done in the next 2 weeks.

Agreed!

 

[FBN0223]

Also agree. For the new Delta... aircraft fleets will retire(DC-9) and new fleets(B787) and additions to newer fleets(B777) will arrive. We should take the adverse effects and benefits of each as one pilot group.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Its amazing that we are all in the same Union. When its all said and done will we not all be Delta airlines pilots hopefully fighting for the same things? Both sides need to stop fighting each other ....

Agreed and this thing would go a lot easier if we knew that the DC9 flying was not going to be outsourced. I'd like to see us work together on Section 1 to take the pressure off the bottom of the list for SLI.

 

[~~~^~~~]

... or doesn't have the capacity to analyze data 5-20 years down the road.

Is Miss Cleo advising the NWA Merger Committee?

I don't think any of us knows where this is going to be in 20 years. Glad my wife is in health care. They should still have sick people in 20 years. But even that isn't a given. A medical "office" visit may be a call to F'loyd in Continental Crew Schduling by then.

 

[DTW320]

Is Miss Cleo advising the NWA Merger Committee?

I don't think any of us knows where this is going to be in 20 years. Glad my wife is in health care. They should still have sick people in 20 years. But even that isn't a given. A medical "office" visit may be a call to F'loyd in Continental Crew Schduling by then.

Disagree. We're not talking about "where the industry" will be 20 years from now or what the "financials of the corporation" will be 20 years from now, we're talking about where a seniority # will be 20 years from now. All one needs to do that is a list, in this case an SLI proposal, and a mandatory retirement age. Your response sure makes it sound like you think we would be happy with our number 2 days after integration.....but sure don't want to talk about what happens to it down the road. Why not? Is tomorrow all that matters? Should I pay no attention to where your proposal will put me 5,10 or 20 years down the road? Sorry, but that is exactly what we are paying attention to and your comments of "does anyone really know where we will be 20 years from now" belongs in the same category as saying "any one of us could be in a fatal car crash tomorrow, and then it won't matter what your DAL seniority # was". Yeah......but if I'm not.....then it really does matter where it will put me down the road. Think of it as planning for the worst case scenario: that we will all have to still be doing this for a living 20 years from now.