Aloha pilots flying for free?

[ualdriver]

Yessir they did, at ALPA National's advice.

It's embarrassing...

Hmmmmmm.........probably more to the story than anyone on here knows. I suspect there's probably a deal to get these guys their pay. Isn't their management still submitting their plan to the Court?

And are these guys the ones that were flying out of seniority order?

 

[plucky]

They are getting paid. It has not been easy for all of us this past month.

http://starbulletin.com/2008/05/09/business/story01.html

 

[ualdriver]

Another stellar example of a union that has completely lost touch with reality and the actual purpose they are in existence for. This is an obvious example of National trying to walk on egg shells to not rock their boat with the politicians. If this isn't evidence the ALPA is irreparably broken and beyond repair, I don't know what is.

Maybe it is time for a complete membership dues holiday to force change and policy at the top. The only way these officers lining their pockets with grossly disproportionate salaries of their constituents will change, is to cut off their funding.

And this post is another stellar example of some ALPA-hater, letting emotion cloud his/her judgement, and not waiting for the facts. Typical flightinfo dribble.

Also, if the last paragraph of pluck's link is correct, it looks like ALPA is at least attempting to go to bat for Aloha's pilots. I haven't a clue if they'll be successful as I know that bankruptcy is certainly stacked against labor, but at least they're trying.

Freightdog- Sorry you lost your job, even though we've gone around the ring once or twice.

 

[Poahi]

some ALPA-hater, letting emotion cloud his/her judgement, and not waiting for the facts.

UALDRIVER,

If UAL went into bankruptcy and stopped paying you, would you continue working?

UAL pilots struck over a B scale issue back in '85 and that was basically over a promised raise.

 

[ualdriver]

UALDRIVER,

If UAL went into bankruptcy and stopped paying you, would you continue working?

UAL pilots struck over a B scale issue back in '85 and that was basically over a promised raise.

If the Aloha pilots were told by ALPA legal counsel that they were going to be paid, I don't have a problem with that......not that it matters what I think. Work for free? Nope. Who would?

 

[Dan Roman]

Well said UalDriver, I really don't know what's going on, except that these guys have been thrown some pretty wild curve balls and are trying to deal with it the best they can. You people are making it sound like they are willing to fly for nothing, when in fact they are trying to preserve what is left as best they can in some very unusual circumstances. They are dealing with a lot of variables that we know nothing about. It's a weird deal and all I can say is good luck to them, let them sort it out and the rest of us really aren't in a good position to judge.

 

[flygirlqt]

And this post is another stellar example of some ALPA-hater, letting emotion cloud his/her judgement, and not waiting for the facts. Typical flightinfo dribble.

Also, if the last paragraph of pluck's link is correct, it looks like ALPA is at least attempting to go to bat for Aloha's pilots. I haven't a clue if they'll be successful as I know that bankruptcy is certainly stacked against labor, but at least they're trying.

Freightdog- Sorry you lost your job, even though we've gone around the ring once or twice.

Another post of an ALPA Kool Aid drinker that is letting the lack of logic and reason blind your judgment. You want some emotion? How about this. FU pay me or the airplanes don't move. I wonder how fast they will reach an agreement then?

What facts do you need? Is the seniority system being honored? What contractual promises are being made and agreed in writing for performing this work? What rates of pay will be given to these pilots retroactive to service performed? They are in fact, until an agreement is reached in writing, working for free. Is there a memorandum between the parties or are we now just indentured servants with ALPA in exchange for a little hope things will work out peachy?

Let's not even talk about pay. How smart is it to advise your membership to work under no CBA with a company no longer in existence? What happens to the estates of these pilots if heaven forbid there is an accident and hey are killed? What if they survive who is going to provide protection? ALPA? Without a written agreement it is incredulous ALPA would even advise this let alone somebody exposing themselves legally. It just shows how truly impotent and fearful ALPA has become. I sure haven't seen ALPA indemnifying these pilots while telling them to fly.

Bankruptcy stacked against labor? A little late for that excuse. I am sure thrilled to know that when the chips are really down, ALPA will advise me to go to work for a bag of promises to a company who already, while operating after the shutdown wouldn't even honor the existing CBA regarding seniority. Given the abysmal start to honoring the ALPA CBA you think it is prudent (besides the obvious of bastardizing our worth as a profession) to trust this new company?

At what point do we as a collective group finally say enough is enough? Besides the insult the precedent this sets and signals by ALPA is a new low. If United fails and you were in this position are you going to decide to fly pro bono? If as you say "you haven't a clue if ALPA will be successful", then you should be realize right away there is a problem.

 

[Poahi]

If the Aloha pilots were told by ALPA legal counsel that they were going to be paid, I don't have a problem with that.....

How could ALPA say that when Saltchuk wasn't even talking with them?

 

[whymeworry?]

Well this just takes the cake!! For all the Aloha pilots flying for free....YOU ARE ALL MORONS, AND YOU SUCK!!!! I guess management around the industry knows where they can find some scabs if need be. These Aloha clowns are perfect scabs in the making.

And here I thought they were talking strike a couple weeks back. Something about selling off the cargo side and wanting job protection. ALPA is as worthless as tits on a bull!!

Don't be such an ***********************************. You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[ualdriver]

Another post of an ALPA Kool Aid drinker that is letting the lack of logic and reason blind your judgment. You want some emotion? How about this. FU pay me or the airplanes don't move. I wonder how fast they will reach an agreement then?

First of all, does it make sense that ALPA National would tell a bunch of guys to go fly airplanes for free if there was little to no likelihood that they weren't going to be paid? Yeah, yeah. ALPA sucks, blah, blah, blah. But if you can put the emotion aside, ALPA doesn't gain anything by telling these guys to fly for free. Like I said before, there's probably more to it than any of us know.

Second of all, the Aloha pilots and MEC are big boys and girls. ALPA National can "advise" all they want. It's the Aloha MEC and ultimately their pilots to decide whether they fly or not. If you want to direct your anger at someone, I suggest you direct in the correct direction.

Third, you think the deck being stacked against labor in bankruptcy is some sort of excuse? So you're arguing that labor isn't at serious disadvantage during a bankrutcy proceeding? Have you been following along during the past few airline Chapter 11 cases? Did you notice how many times our bankruptcy judge gave management carte blanche to execute their plans? Again, your emotions get in the way of logic.

I think you said you are going to law school. Great. When are you leaving?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Any Aloha pilots on here that are able to explain all of this working for free business.

 

[PA31Driver]

So, whatever happened to "Taking it Back" or something to that effect? Is this Capt. Prater's way of taking it back? Working for free and hoping the company will honor their word?

 

[av8tor4239]

First off, ALPA is a Joke..

The pilots that are flying for the "promise" of pay from a defunct non-existent airline are IDIOTS

And finaly... I am so glad I am not a member of ALPA anymore.. I will never ever work for a company that has alpa representation.

 

[r0dman]

Flying for Free

They are just trying to keep the cargo airplanes going so others could maybe get a job, when the new company Saltchuk buys them.

 

[Freight Dog]

I'm still at a loss for words about this...

I flew my last trip on March 29, and I haven't looked back since.

Hawaii has different dynamics. Aloha moves 85% of cargo going interisland. For example, bread goes from Oahu to neighboring islands by Aloha at night. Newspaper, mail, flowers, produce, you name it... it goes on Aloha. When I flew cargo when I was on probation, we even flew a car for some big shot.
Without Aloha cargo, the state's economy starts to feel the pinch. So in order to looks good, pilots said they'd fly and deal with pay later in hopes of getting paid.

As for seniority issues, well... initially the company wanted to keep pilots who flew on cargo bid only regardless of seniority and terminate the rest. Yes, terminate. We're not considered furloughed - we're TERMINATED. If we were furloughed, we'd have recall rights, they'd owe us furlough pay, vacation pay, etc. ALPA dropped the ball on that.

The company finally agreed to use the seniority system and train former passenger pilots, even those who flew trans-Pacific to fly cargo in -200's. However, GMAC upped the bid price for cargo to 20 mil. The pilots then wanted to revert the status of others from terminated to furloughed. When Saltchuk (the top bidder) walked, GMAC pulled the funding and Aloha filed for Chapter 7. Now the People's Republic of Hawaii found itself without air cargo service, the pilots said they'd come fly the planes and "rescue" the state even though the state sold us out to begin with. How that was possible is beyond me... but they're doing it.

What's worse is that ALPA is condoning working for free... What other union would allow this, let alone advertise this??! Someone PLEASE explain this.

BTW... UALDriver, thanks for the kind words. It's never personal.

 

[JohnDoe]

What's worse is that ALPA is condoning working for free... What other union would allow this, let alone advertise this??! Someone PLEASE explain this.

I don't think any other union would. Just one more step ALPA is making towards becoming irrelevant.

Seems to me, if the entity operating Aloha cargo can afford to pay for gas and any other item that has to be paid (even in bankruptcy) then they can afford to pay the pilots something. But then again, why would they honor the contract at all if people are willing to work for no pay!?!?

"The check is in the mail."

I also have to say the "It's the mec, not alpa national" excuse is getting real old. Quit giving these over-paid suits in Herndon an out. "Takin' it back".......Riiiiight. Working for no pay....that'll show them.

 

[Lear70]

First of all, does it make sense that ALPA National would tell a bunch of guys to go fly airplanes for free if there was little to no likelihood that they weren't going to be paid? Yeah, yeah. ALPA sucks, blah, blah, blah. But if you can put the emotion aside, ALPA doesn't gain anything by telling these guys to fly for free. Like I said before, there's probably more to it than any of us know.

Or maybe not... Do YOU know for certain, either way? Obviously not. So why, then, do you rush to defend ALPA not knowing the full story?

Second of all, the Aloha pilots and MEC are big boys and girls. ALPA National can "advise" all they want. It's the Aloha MEC and ultimately their pilots to decide whether they fly or not. If you want to direct your anger at someone, I suggest you direct in the correct direction.

Why not? I'm not happy that ALPA signed off on this, either. They've dropped the ball again and again and again in the last decade. Aloha is just another in the long line of bad decisions from Herndon - can't say as I'm surprised.

Third, you think the deck being stacked against labor in bankruptcy is some sort of excuse? So you're arguing that labor isn't at serious disadvantage during a bankrutcy proceeding? Have you been following along during the past few airline Chapter 11 cases? Did you notice how many times our bankruptcy judge gave management carte blanche to execute their plans? Again, your emotions get in the way of logic.

She never said that. You let your emotion get in the way of interpreting what she said and it biased your interpretation.

What she did say is that "it was a little late for that excuse", meaning that pilots using the fact that the pilots will likely get screwed in bankruptcy, so why bother trying to fight and just beg for scraps after the fact is a cop-out to actually growing a spine and letting the cargo ops fall on its face.

I think you said you are going to law school. Great. When are you leaving?

And, when you can no longer argue effectively, you go for the personal slam and mud-slinging, as always. Reduces everything you say to complete rubbish by not staying within the confines of logical debate and resorting to off-topic-bashing.

ALPA is completely ineffective. While not completely ALPA's fault (the RLA has no teeth), I certainly don't have ANY support for ALPA actually CONDONING the "fly for free and hope that you'll get paid sometime soon".

That's NOT how a professional pilot accepts a flying position, ESPECIALLY in an organized labor group.

 

[flygirlqt]

Thanks Lear..your words are my thoughts with Mr. UAL on the subject.

I said before something smelled about this whole situation. I have a feeling ALPA is pandering to Senator Inouye (the future Appropriations Chairman) as he is knee deep pushing this situation with Aloha.

 

[regionaltard]

Now the People's Republic of Hawaii found itself without air cargo service...

In some circles, that's called leverage.

 

[Turtlesfly]

wasn't there a talk of a strike beginning today?