NWA Phantom retirements

[DTW320]

Actually, I am a 737-800 captain, hired in the late 90's. I am about 20 numbers away from 767ER captain. I know that Moscow, Nice, Frankfurt, etc are not PREMIUM widebody flying, but I think that an arbitrator might beg to differ. Sorry to disappoint you, perhaps your can find some relevant arguments next. Yep, mergers do indeed suck. Right back at ya slick, next!!

So let me get this straight PuffDaddy...an arbitrator is going to factor in the destinations that a certain fleet serves? This will cause him to ignore the fact that your 767 pays 10% more than our 757? You know, the same payrate difference that exists between every DAL/NWA aircraft comparison? Go ahead, tell me again how your 757 pays widebody rates (instead of the fact that it is the other was around as evidenced by the payrate comparisons).

You've obviously been Puffin away there....driver

 

[Noserider76]

Sooo.....the next proposal from DALPA will have, what, 1500 slots reserved above current NWA pilots for DAL pilots not hired yet? Cool. See ya in arbitration with that

I can't believe you guys are taking that "1000 future DL hires above your guys" at face value. Let's see what you have so we can put it in context if it really does exist. Why was the last proposal NW's which was agreed to by DL? When they asked DL to run the numbers and saw the results they rejected their own offer.

It's great to paint the other guy as the bad guy in the propaganda war. It doesn't accomplish much for the average guy in the end. You've taken a group that wanted to work out an agreement to benefit all and hardened their postions. I'm not surprised. Nothing has changed since I was there. Great people individally. Cornered badger mentality as a group.

 

[DTW320]

Some of us don't think that Compass is a player going forward anyway. Not to mention that we had to give a wavier in the scope specifically for the weight of those Compass airplanes. As for our scope being pathetic, I agree. Happened before my time, and it is a bone of contention right down the middle of our list. What's your point. My point? It's that thing you guys like to miss: Your admittedly sorry Scope is the very mechanism that will allow the parking of the airplanes compared to NWA scope, yet you guys say over and over, with a straight face, that NWA pilots need to be sacrificed for that. Even though our Scope that we negotiated prevents the parkings that would hurt us. Hypocrisy at it's finest. I think that they will gladly let Compass go, if it means putting pressure on the NWA pilots to be a little more reasonable. I certainly do not wish for that, and I fully expect you to quote it out of context in your next diatribe. Nonetheless, it is there, and it is a YP not an MP.

.............

 

[PuffDriver]

Sooo.....the next proposal from DALPA will have, what, 1500 slots reserved above current NWA pilots for DAL pilots not hired yet? Cool. See ya in arbitration with that

Out of context, an urban legend. Go talk to your folks, and they will either set you straight or continue lying to you.

 

[PuffDriver]

.............

As thought, you pulled the quote out of context. Nicely done.

 

[PuffDriver]

So let me get this straight PuffDaddy...an arbitrator is going to factor in the destinations that a certain fleet serves? This will cause him to ignore the fact that your 767 pays 10% more than our 757? You know, the same payrate difference that exists between every DAL/NWA aircraft comparison? Go ahead, tell me again how your 757 pays widebody rates (instead of the fact that it is the other was around as evidenced by the payrate comparisons).

You've obviously been Puffin away there....driver

No, he is not going to factor in destinations. That was merely to point out that international flying is international flying. Like it or not, our airplanes pay more than yours. THAT will factor in as you are already going to get raises. Se it is not just about a place on the list with arbitrators, it is also about career compensation. Keep trying.

 

[PuffDriver]

Hilarious. Ummmm....we retired the 727's a long time ago. I miss them but they used a lot of gas. I agree....you are not a liar.....you're just grossly ignorant. That fact mixed with your stereotypical Deltoid arrogance is an unfortunate combo.

WOW, you REALLY got me there. 727's instead of 747's. Gold star for you. Now try and refute it. Like shoot'in fish in a barrel.

 

[DTW320]

Actually, I am a 737-800 captain, hired in the late 90's. I am about 20 numbers away from 767ER captain.

Tell us a story PuffDaddy!!....Oh, Oh, I know, the one about how the massive early retirements at DAL didn't help anyone out that was left because you parked airplanes. That's one of my favorite fairy tales! PLEEEEEEASE?

 

[nonstop]

That last proposal was much better than you'll see this time around. The object then was to start close to get a deal done quickly so both sides would benefit. Both sides now have to change tactics to prepare for the probability of arbitration. I think you'll see something along the lines of relative seniority by equipment this time around. Widebody/757/narrowbody like the result of the last arbitrated airline merger settlement. Your senior guys will be very happy.

I'm still hoping for a big contract improvement and a negotiated SLI we can all be equally unhappy with. I just don't see a negotiated SLI as much of a possibility anymore. It would have been different if both sides had come out saying "no arbitration, we're going to stay here until we hammer this out." Unfortuately when arbitration is presented as the solution by one side on day 1, the path is clear.

Hey congrats you realized what the NWA guys realized months ago, there's no way this is going to get done without arbitration. Instead Moak threw away a better contract than your LOA 19 and we'll end up in arbitration anyway. Hard to believe you guys aren't pissed about that... we're right back where we started with less for everyone all because Moak wouldn't agree to arbitration. Starting to get a feel for the (lack of) insightfulness of your leader yet? Moak is an idiot and has already screwed ALL of us because he's totally out of touch with reality!

The DAL ALPA proposals were so skewed it's hard to believe Moak could propose them with a straight face. They were outrageous! You tried to buy our list but we didn't sell it so now your expectations need to come way down. This is not going to be a windfall for your group at the NWA pilots expense. Moak is in way over his head and totally unprepared... best start whittling down those expectations of yours. You never know for sure but I'd say it's a pretty safe bet DAL ALPA is not going to beat NWA ALPA in the game of arbitration.

 

[nonstop]

Out of context, an urban legend. Go talk to your folks, and they will either set you straight or continue lying to you.

It's not a legend it's a fact I've seen the proposal. Moak is a space cadet, if I were you guys I'd be working hard to find a replacement. He already threw away a better contract but you all seem blissfully ignorant of that fact.

 

[DTW320]

WOW, you REALLY got me there. 727's instead of 747's. Gold star for you. Now try and refute it. Like shoot'in fish in a barrel.

Doesn't take much with you.....You better get on the batphone to Lee and tell him to place that order soon....a PID is coming your way a lot sooner than you think.

 

[PuffDriver]

Hey, Puff, we're NOT going away and maybe there's a REASON we sound like the PanAm guys. Forgive me if I don't get down on my knees and worship the great double-breasted gods from the South...

I'm not going away because history tends to repeat itself. Beware of ANY pilot group telling you "you're going to get a great deal if you just take our offer".

NWA will get arbitration as specified by Bond/McCaskill and ALPA merger policy. Pretty scary, huh? TC

Ah, yes, the "double breasted sky god" slam. How original.

Many of us ALPA pilots jumped into that fray in defense of our ALPA bro's, but your MEC seemed hell bent on destruction. Couple that with the lack of support from ALPA, and you get what you get. My point was that someday you have to move on. I fought scope changes, I lost, I move on. Fight the next fight instead of reliving the past. You benefitted unlike the Pan AM'ers because you all got taken. Only some of the PanAms got taken. BS, but it is what it is, and it's over.

Nobody is saying that this is a good deal in regards to career advancement. It never is. The Delta pilots positioned themselves, and the NWA positioned themselves. Delta's position is much more stronger in the case to be made in front of an arbitrator.
If you are so in the loop, you would know that Bond/McCaskill does NOT apply, and if we can come to an arrangement prior to invoking ALPA merger policy, that is also OK in the eyes of the law.

 

[DTW320]

It's not a legend it's a fact I've seen the proposal. Moak is a space cadet, if I were you guys I'd be working hard to find a replacement. He already threw away a better contract but you all seem blissfully ignorant of that fact.

A lot of Moak's behavior was driven by the fact that he was facing recall for being too soft with this. Now he can say he was tough and then blame the unfortunate result on an arbitrator.

 

[PuffDriver]

Tell us a story PuffDaddy!!....Oh, Oh, I know, the one about how the massive early retirements at DAL didn't help anyone out that was left because you parked airplanes. That's one of my favorite fairy tales! PLEEEEEEASE?

Once again, since you are not paying attention. Over half of the 2200 earlies would have been gone by the rule change in december anyway. Ok so far? Another 400 or so were out on leave. Still with me? The 500 or so that ended up being legit early retirees did little to advance seniority due to the fact that we also rid ourselves of the 727s , MD11s, and 737Gs. A wash. Plus the pension went away as a direct result of those earlies. Makes a VERY strong case to an arbitrator.

You are unable to refute any of that. Go round some more of your cronies to jump onboard and try though.

 

[Superpilot92]

Yet AGAIN, when we retired our 2000 or so senior Captains, we also parked our MD11s, 767-200s, 737-200s, and 737-300s. Thats not our fault you sold the farm on you scope clause. RJ's replaced your 737's. Our seniority progression after the retirements was minimal. How would your guys do if you right now parked all of the DC9s and 742s? You are NOT taking into account the loss of airplanes that likely = your opinion. You flip flop opinions based on the threads. Your other posts suggest RA likes the DC9s and will be keeping them as a filler. Which is it? will go away on your side. We shouldn't have to take a hit for your old planes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Can you get that written and signed and have it hold up in a court of law? Then Forggettabbout it

Its funny you like to point fingers when we talk about retirements yet you turn around and do the same thing with your "likely" scenarios.

Also you act like those retirements wont happen? I guess they all just freeze at their current age and none will ever turn 65 even if they stayed that long(unlikely)