NWA Phantom retirements

[PuffDriver]

A lot of Moak's behavior was driven by the fact that he was facing recall for being too soft with this. Now he can say he was tough and then blame the unfortunate result on an arbitrator.

Yawn. Keep trying. He is not scared of anything. Say that to his face sometime. The recall was not for being soft. It was for negotiating a contract without membership input. It was initiated by some guys who want badly to be back in power. It failed miserably. Get your facts straight.

 

[PuffDriver]

Hey congrats you realized what the NWA guys realized months ago, there's no way this is going to get done without arbitration. Instead Moak threw away a better contract than your LOA 19 and we'll end up in arbitration anyway. Hard to believe you guys aren't pissed about that... we're right back where we started with less for everyone all because Moak wouldn't agree to arbitration.

We still won't willingly go. It is a method of last result, and only if done under merger policy


The DAL ALPA proposals were so skewed it's hard to believe Moak could propose them with a straight face. They were outrageous! You tried to buy our list but we didn't sell it so now your expectations need to come way down. This is not going to be a windfall for your group at the NWA pilots expense. Moak is in way over his head and totally unprepared... best start whittling down those expectations of yours. You never know for sure but I'd say it's a pretty safe bet DAL ALPA is not going to beat NWA ALPA in the game of arbitration.

I'll take that bet. Funny thing about sure things.....

 

[PuffDriver]

Doesn't take much with you.....You better get on the batphone to Lee and tell him to place that order soon....a PID is coming your way a lot sooner than you think.

Blather, blather, blather. Your one win: You caught me in a typeo. Congratulations. The crowd cheers and his mother cries. Care to argue the point?????


Didn't think so.

 

[123]

I surmise that Steenland will eventually get tired of these reindeer games messing with his "out" money and start taking action in the fall--you know--after the busy summer season. The dreaded "F" bomb will get thrown around, and backwards movement will begin at NWA. DC-9s will be parked along with merging/dissolution of Compass, perhaps some 727 classics-or even all of them. That sets the stage for the merger consummation and the setting of a PID. Not looking good on those "career expectations", especially when you throw in the newly arriving 6 777 LRs, and the soon-to-be, meaning before the PID, announced 777 order.
.

Puff,

It is sentiments like this that only lead to the idea that DALPA is attempting to negotiate the NWA ALPA out of the equation. It is clear that you "want" NWA to begin furloughing and parking airplanes while Delta continues the hiring game. I understand that everyone is looking out for their best interests, but this kind of divisiveness has to stop. I am sure that both sides are equally responsible in the lack of unity between both pilot groups. With your statement above, it is clear that we should be pushing for a PID immediately, however, I am hopefull that cooler heads will decide the outcome with a favorable (harms everyone) decision.

I will tell you though, after being furloughed for 5.5 yrs and recently coming back to NWA, I will not be impressed to be slotted in with "yet to be hired" Delta pilots. This is not rumor, it is the latest DALPA "take it or leave it" offer on SLI.

I am not upset with DALPA, I understand what they are trying to do. I am just dis-heartened by what is happening. We had an excellent opportunity at "taking it back" and actually having some leverage with our new airline. Unfortunately, neither side could come to an agreement and here we are, right where management wants us, fighting each other instead of joining forces together and collectively getting all of managements money off the table (even the money they stashed under the table).

I am more upset with Boeing than with DALPA. Had Boeing actually planned and properly managed the 787 program from the start, the career expectations would either begin to be recognized here at NWA, or I would still be on furlough and not worrying about getting pushed back on the street. NWA signed on for 18 787's to begin being delivered now, thus there would have been quite a bit of movement over here that we have not realized. So, if anyone, I am more upset with the poor project planning and oversight at Boeing than anyone.

 

[DTW320]

Once again, since you are not paying attention. Over half of the 2200 earlies would have been gone by the rule change in december anyway. Ok so far? Another 400 or so were out on leave. Still with me? The 500 or so that ended up being legit early retirees did little to advance seniority due to the fact that we also rid ourselves of the 727s , MD11s, and 737Gs. A wash. Plus the pension went away as a direct result of those earlies. Makes a VERY strong case to an arbitrator.

You are unable to refute any of that. Go round some more of your cronies to jump onboard and try though.

Just...hilarious...what color is the sky in your delusional world? Your soon to be a 767CA at 10 years seniority but according to you it would have been that way even if over 2000 senior pilots didn't leave. As for your pension, how does the note you received affect that? An arbitrator won't consider that? A lot of your Boyz here have said that the average remaining Deltoid didn't lose much on the pension when you factor that in. Not to mention your PBGC benefit.

 

[DTW320]

Blather, blather, blather. Your one win: You caught me in a typeo. Congratulations. The crowd cheers and his mother cries. Care to argue the point?????


Didn't think so.

Ummm..I'm not the one bringing up Mother's (Mother's Day this weekend....don't forget). It sure seems like you are the one NOT arguing the points.

BTW, Lee is going to have a LOT of things "said to his face" by NWA'ers when this is done. From talking to many of your guys, he's going to have a lot of things "said to his face" by unhappy Deltoids as well. Your little 5th grade playground reference: "Oh yeah? Say that to his face!" is just, beyond pathetic and sad. Congrats though on your election to President of the Moakster Fan Club. Lee, Lee, of him I sing! He's not afraid of anything!

 

[DTW320]

Blather, blather, blather. Your one win: You caught me in a typeo. Congratulations. The crowd cheers and his mother cries. Care to argue the point?????


Didn't think so.

Make that TWO! I win!!!!:laugh:

Like shootin fish in a barrel indeed.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff,

It is sentiments like this that only lead to the idea that DALPA is attempting to negotiate the NWA ALPA out of the equation. It is clear that you "want" NWA to begin furloughing and parking airplanes while Delta continues the hiring game. I understand that everyone is looking out for their best interests, but this kind of divisiveness has to stop. I am sure that both sides are equally responsible in the lack of unity between both pilot groups. With your statement above, it is clear that we should be pushing for a PID immediately, however, I am hopefull that cooler heads will decide the outcome with a favorable (harms everyone) decision.

I will tell you though, after being furloughed for 5.5 yrs and recently coming back to NWA, I will not be impressed to be slotted in with "yet to be hired" Delta pilots. This is not rumor, it is the latest DALPA "take it or leave it" offer on SLI.

I am not upset with DALPA, I understand what they are trying to do. I am just dis-heartened by what is happening. We had an excellent opportunity at "taking it back" and actually having some leverage with our new airline. Unfortunately, neither side could come to an agreement and here we are, right where management wants us, fighting each other instead of joining forces together and collectively getting all of managements money off the table (even the money they stashed under the table).

I am more upset with Boeing than with DALPA. Had Boeing actually planned and properly managed the 787 program from the start, the career expectations would either begin to be recognized here at NWA, or I would still be on furlough and not worrying about getting pushed back on the street. NWA signed on for 18 787's to begin being delivered now, thus there would have been quite a bit of movement over here that we have not realized. So, if anyone, I am more upset with the poor project planning and oversight at Boeing than anyone.

The 1000 phantom targets are part of a greater picture that included some things on your side that were questionable as well. So let's put that urban legend to rest. They were a red herring, thrown in to offset the red herring thrown by the NWA side. As I said in a later post, my quote is taken out of context. I do not wish for that to happen. I see it a logical though. I do not want anybody's seniority. The simple fact is, however, is that it is not fair to me, in a merged group, for you to continue to accrue seniority above and without me doing the same just because a NWA pilot retires. It is also not correct to revisit the past, and try and get additional accrual because our pension was terminated due to a rush on the bank. The note and claim moneys were for concessions taken under LOA51. Pure and simple. They were not for terminated pension.

As for some of the more senior guys being made whole, I doubt that you'd say the same if you talked to them. I have, and they weren't.

On boeing, we agree. let's hope that they are not further delayed. Our company, DAL/NWA needs them.

 

[PuffDriver]

Just...hilarious...what color is the sky in your delusional world? Your soon to be a 767CA at 10 years seniority but according to you it would have been that way even if over 2000 senior pilots didn't leave. As for your pension, how does the note you received affect that? An arbitrator won't consider that?

All here is correct. Finally you are starting to get it.

 

[PuffDriver]

Ummm..I'm not the one bringing up Mother's (Mother's Day this weekend....don't forget). It sure seems like you are the one NOT arguing the points.

BTW, Lee is going to have a LOT of things "said to his face" by NWA'ers when this is done. From talking to many of your guys, he's going to have a lot of things "said to his face" by unhappy Deltoids as well. Your little 5th grade playground reference: "Oh yeah? Say that to his face!" is just, beyond pathetic and sad. Congrats though on your election to President of the Moakster Fan Club. Lee, Lee, of him I sing! He's not afraid of anything!

nothing of substance again

 

[PuffDriver]

Make that TWO! I win!!!!:laugh:

Like shootin fish in a barrel indeed.

Deflect, divert, deflect, divert.

 

[Noserider76]

Instead Moak threw away a better contract than your LOA 19 and we'll end up in arbitration anyway. Hard to believe you guys aren't pissed about that... we're right back where we started with less for everyone all because Moak wouldn't agree to arbitration. Starting to get a feel for the (lack of) insightfulness of your leader yet? Moak is an idiot and has already screwed ALL of us because he's totally out of touch with reality!

I'm not pissed at him at all. He is a leader and the only one with any foresight I've seen in this process. He wanted a deal that was equally acceptable to both sides. He's not afraid of guys walking around with derogatory stickers of him on their bag. He expects it.

Could it be the fact that the company wasn't going to give us anything for an arbitrated settlement? They needed a deal with no fences and arbitration would almost certainly have had them. Could it be the fact that without Moak's foresight there would have been no opportunity for either group to profit from this merger? If I was going to blame anyone it would be your MEC but really what good does blaming anyone do? The fact that they're running around trying to cover their ass with finger pointing roadshows and out of context half-truths tells me a lot. Doesn't do much for you, though.

The fact is that as long as one group latches on to one atribute with no acknowledgement of the other benefits there is no room for negotiation. If you hitch your horse to "more near term retirements", you have to accept many more future DL retirements, many more high paying DL aircraft, and many old DC-9s from NW in a record fuel price environment, thrown into the mix as well.

 

[Superpilot92]

*loud speaker* puffdriver your party is waiting for you down in reality!! :laugh:

 

[PuffDriver]

*loud speaker* puffdriver your party is waiting for you down in reality!! :laugh:

Substance? Refutes? Naw, didn't think so. I'll check again in a few minutes. Not expecting much.

 

[PuffDriver]

I'll add something else. Anybody hired in 91 had to wait 5 years for upgrade to captain. Anybody hired in 1996-1999 had to wait 1-1 1/2 years for captain. We'd better go back and take that into account as well. Doesn't bode well for those in the "early retirement credit" argument. What else can we dig up from the past?