Ex-Gulfstream International Airline pilot files complaint with FAA

[se1776]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/service...local/sfl-flbpilot0504pnmay04,0,1147673.story

I don't get.

Maybe you guys figure this one out.

 

[Abernathy]

What don't you get

 

[WalterSobchak]

Scariest part of the article was this quote from Gulfstream's VP of Legal Affairs:

"In general, we operate within the guidelines of the FAA," he said.

Wait, WHAT?

 

[Abernathy]

usually, we're typically often pretty good about being somewhat safe

 

[say again]

Unbelievable!!

 

[se1776]

INOP TCAS will ground an airplane?

That' what I don't get.

I know you need it for RVSM airspace.

I guess looking out the window doesn't count anymore.

Ok I get... they fly in the south where there is a lot of solid IFR condition.

 

[Weasil]

I hope he sues them.

 

[WalterSobchak]

INOP TCAS will ground an airplane?

That' what I don't get.

I know you need it for RVSM airspace.

(insert game show incorrect answer buzzer...here)

It is a common misconception but, no TCAS is required for RVSM operations. I get this question at least once a week, so you're not the only one that thinks this.

All you need is two independent altitude measurement systems, a functional autopilot system, an altitude alerting system, and a Mode C transponder.

I hope he sues them.

While, from the dispatch perspective, he was kinda being a pain in the arse to refuse a deferred TCAS...I hope he sues them, too. I don't see how he wouldn't win.

 

[Max Q]

I wouldn't dream of going anywhere near the Coral Springs training area with passengers, TCAS or not.

-Brett

 

[SmitteyB]

INOP TCAS will ground an airplane?

That' what I don't get.

I know you need it for RVSM airspace.

I guess looking out the window doesn't count anymore.

Ok I get... they fly in the south where there is a lot of solid IFR condition.

TCAS inop SHOULD ground airplane.

That airplane crusies at 230 knots, you would close on a slower aircraft much faster than you would think.

SHAME ON GULFSTREAM. I hope they shut those scumbags down.

 

[belchfire]

INOP TCAS will ground an airplane?

Sure as heck can! See, I had one where the Encoder got MEL'd, no big deal (except for having to remind Dispatch to revise our suffix). Then we discovered that with no encoder the TCAS didn't work...so I looked up the MEL on that and lo and behold while the encoder was a three day MEL, having no TCAS was a one day MEL...

Which caused no small consternation at HQ! (Dang pilots, if we didn't have them we could make some real money!)...

I wasn't working for Gulfstream BTW...never have.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

INOP TCAS will ground an airplane?

That' what I don't get.

I know you need it for RVSM airspace.

I guess looking out the window doesn't count anymore.

Ok I get... they fly in the south where there is a lot of solid IFR condition.

All turbine aircraft require a tcas to be installed and operating

 

[skypine69]

He has been in aviation 20 years and he works for Gulfstream? thats the part that confuses me.

 

[AWACoff]

All turbine aircraft require a tcas to be installed and operating

They don't all require the TCAS to be operating. That's what MELs are for.


I think the Gulfstream pilot made a rational decision. He had a near mid-air just previous to this. There were build ups enroute and it was night time. The TCAS is T.U. Then you throw on top of that one of the busiest training areas the U.S. It would have made me think twice.

 

[landlover]

All turbine aircraft require a tcas to be installed and operating

not if you're hauling boxes part 135.

 

[Piper877]

not if you're hauling boxes part 135.

Yeah I was gonna say...I've done quite a few flights in the caravan with no tcas. In fact, 1200 hours worth.

I think it might have to do with passenger carrying and/or number of seats.

 

[LearLove]

If the information in theis arcticle is correct:

I hope he sues and wins big time.

Of course you can go with an mel'd tcas. But this capt had multiple and vaid reasons why not to conduct this flight without it.

1. no press so your down low where there is added traffic and more of the kind of traffic that doesn't have tcas at all.

2. flight thru/in the vicinity of known student training area

3. weather which would inhibit visual contact with other traffic

sounds like fine judgement to me (based on the information in the article)

just because something can be mel'd doesn't mean its safe for flight all the time.

 

[LearLove]

walter - read my above post. your right a mel'd/defered tcas is perfectly legal however legal doesn't alway mean safe. the ca of that flight had valid reasons to cx the flight.

 

[propsarebest]

INOP TCAS will ground an airplane?

That' what I don't get.

I know you need it for RVSM airspace.

I guess looking out the window doesn't count anymore.

Ok I get... they fly in the south where there is a lot of solid IFR condition.

TCAS is NOT required for RVSM operations, except in China and India.

Granted without it, it is a PITA.

 

[andyd]

according to the artical the tcas was fixed and signed off by a mechanic in TPA....therfore there was no reason to refuse it on that basis. There were other "issues" with this particular Captain and past refusals and this event was more than likely just the icing on the cake. Sometimes the sqeaky wheel gets the grease...sometimes it just gets replaced. I know both Herfort and Bystrom personally and professionally....I can tell you from first hand experience that if you have a VALID beef then they will back you BUT if you don't then they will hang you as well....that is thier job and they both do it well. No one should go to GIA if you don't expect to work your as@ off. The reward is a pretty decent contract, above average $ for a 1900 and home nearly everynight not to mention building 121 turbine pic like it's going out of style. This is a small commuter, problems should be expected, no outfit is flawless. But in defense of GIA., I was impressed with thier maintenance and keeping things running. The Mel's serve a purpose and they are approved by the FAA...it's it's legal and safe to go with it mel'd then that's what you are expexted to do....whether at GIA or NASA and all stops inbetween. Not sugar coating my time there, I had a few phone calls with both Bystrom and Herfort where we had "discussions" about legality and the right thing, bottom line is you have to pick and choose your battles wisely. But if the guy who signs your paycheck says to you that you have a choice: fly it or be fired. I can guarantee you that Tom Herfort would NEVER say that if it were NOT legal. This guy made his choice and now he has to live with it. He will be able to recover his career and chalk this up as learning experience. I think in the meantime though he's waisting time and $$ in court.

Flame away!