Goodbye Horizon Jets...

[Yodafly]

Makes since, why fly an RJ when the Q400 is just as fast on most routes and burns less gas. Single type is the way to go. Dash is also talking about a 90 seat version.

 

[bjack]

Supposedly they are going to try and finish the pilot contract within the next 6 months or so with some amazing new seminar. If that happens I wonder if next year at this time they will suddenly decide to buy some 100 seat jets?

 

[DashTrash400]

Compared to the cost of oil, Horizon's higher crew costs aren't enough to justify what air group is doing. The real key here is that Horizon is structured more like a major than a feeder...the numbers I've seen have only 40% of their pax connecting to AS, they get a pretty small percentage of their income from AS for "harmonization" flying, and they pay their own fuel tab. And Air Group expects them to make a profit on their own, whereas most airlines realize that losing a bit of money on air service agreements with regional carriers is the price of extra feed to mainline. That's the real reason that CR7s aren't profitable for QX when they're such a hot commodity elsewhere.

Also, keep in mind that QX was a launch customer for the CR7 and got a good deal on them; I've heard that QX can get about $5m more APIECE now for them than they paid brand new.

Really, if you compare Horizon's CR7 CA rates to Skywest's CR7 rates or Republic's E170 rates, it's a $12-20 difference for each year, a pretty insignificant percentage of the total hourly cost of operating the airplane. In any case, I think longevity contributes more to high crew costs than the industry-leading payrates, and I'm not sure how you "fix" that. It's a matter of geography more than anything: pilots from the PNW who don't want to commute don't have much choice in airlines to work for, so becoming a lifer at QX was an easy choice.

I feel bad for the FOs on the Q400. Sitting there listening to the ex-F28 captains b!itch about it was bad enough, but that'll be nothing compared to the grumpy old ex-CR7 captains.

 

[rudder]

Getting rid of the jets is just a precursor to the acquisition of Alaska by SWA. Horizon will be sold as part of the transaction. SWAPA will possibly allow the Q400 feed to continue (or not).

 

[regionaltard]

I feel bad for the FOs on the Q400. Sitting there listening to the ex-F28 captains b!itch about it was bad enough, but that'll be nothing compared to the grumpy old ex-CR7 captains.

Considering that it sounds like a lot of those FO's are going to be grumpy ex-captains themselves it should be a hoot for everyone.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Gawd...some of you people have fabulous imaginations and very little grasp of the facts (with a few exceptions in this thread).

I would suggest listening to today's conference call and reading the 8K. If you can't figure out how to find them, why don't you just give it a break.

The EXCO responsible for this? What a crock. I don't even know where to start. Heaven forbid we have an EXCO that knows a sucker's deal when they see one.

If AAG was so hot on the idea of contracting RJ flying out to a third party, why didn't they mention it at all during the conference call? Why did they actually suggest that it wasn't the answer.

The worse news here isn't that we're getting rid of the RJs. The worse news is that we're a 65 aircraft airline today and in two year's time, we'll be a 48 (+/- a couple) aircraft airline.

You morons that think that has anything to do with our payrates, contract, or the actions of our EXCO really ought to get on the phone and schedule your much-needed frontal lobotomies.

 

[JetSpeed219]

^ Finally someone who gets it, I'm going to go ahead and be a little optimistic and say I think we will end up with a few more than 48 aircraft. I'm hoping that 48 number is a worst case scenario.

 

[turbodriver]

Whew....

I don't' know about the rest of you, but I'm glad I bailed for AS last year..........

Best decision of my career.

 

[unwashed]

I'm glad I bailed out of the ERROR group last year. I think the hits are just going to keep on comin for Bill ERROR (and his whipping boy Jeffy) and the ERROR Group.

 

[siucavflight]

You need to set the bar high in ways such that captains aren't making 150k+ for flying 70 seats. That will just price you right out of the competition, which it did. There's nothing wrong with making good money in this industry but that is ridiculous for 70 seats. To think to yourself that management of a publicly held company wouldn't do anything to combat that is even more ignorant.

Are you serious, so they set the bar too high for you?? What type of flying do you do? It is attitudes like yours that screw the rest of us.

 

[QCappy]

I don't' know about the rest of you, but I'm glad I bailed for AS last year..........

Best decision of my career.

I second that motion

 

[tico]

I second that motion

So both of you had the seniority to hang on through the upcoming Horizon furloughs. I promise you that you do not have the seniority to hang on through the upcoming Alaska furloughs............How will you take your crow? With a little butter and garlic

 

[mach none]

Gawd...some of you people have fabulous imaginations and very little grasp of the facts (with a few exceptions in this thread).

I would suggest listening to today's conference call and reading the 8K. If you can't figure out how to find them, why don't you just give it a break.

The EXCO responsible for this? What a crock. I don't even know where to start. Heaven forbid we have an EXCO that knows a sucker's deal when they see one.

If AAG was so hot on the idea of contracting RJ flying out to a third party, why didn't they mention it at all during the conference call? Why did they actually suggest that it wasn't the answer.

The worse news here isn't that we're getting rid of the RJs. The worse news is that we're a 65 aircraft airline today and in two year's time, we'll be a 48 (+/- a couple) aircraft airline.

You morons that think that has anything to do with our payrates, contract, or the actions of our EXCO really ought to get on the phone and schedule your much-needed frontal lobotomies.

They have mentioned it, but the conference call was not the proper venue.

 

[F/O]

I don't' know about the rest of you, but I'm glad I bailed for AS last year..........

Best decision of my career.

Uhhhhh.....would that even be a choice? Kinda comes down to if you get a job offer at AS or not, doesn't it??

 

[Capi_Cafre']

I would suggest listening to today's conference call...

I wouldn't assume that all of the pertinent information was disclosed in that forum. It's not like they're gonna say something like "We believe that the threat of bringing in a third party to perform flying that overlaps that done by both of our wholly owned airlines will give us considerable leverage to lower pilot costs at both units which should show up as a saving of blah blah blah......"

I think that the most likely scenario is that the AAG is being configured for some sort of consolidation-that would be a scenario where a bunch of RJ pilots not working for peanuts might be an obstacle to getting a deal done.