Reasons I dont miss the airlines:

[Club ORD FO]

1. Aloha
2. Skyway
3. ATA
4. MaxJet
5. Skybus
6. Champion
7. ????????

Thats a lot of companies going belly up. I wonder whos next?

been a bad spring for the airlines. 3 went under just this week. I hope/think the fractionals have a better business model to weather the high fuel price storm.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

1. Aloha
2. Skyway
3. ATA
4. MaxJet
5. Skybus
6. Champion
7. ????????

Thats a lot of companies going belly up. I wonder whos next?

been a bad spring for the airlines. 3 went under just this week. I hope/think the fractionals have a better business model to weather the high fuel price storm.

Unless all of the people who really can't afford a full "private jet" start slumming it in first class when they need to travel.... NO ONE is immune to this economy....next year many may be saying "glad I didn't follow the fad and go to NetJets." You just never know, so I wouldn't get too comfortable in the losses of some low cost carriers... I choose not to live in a state of oblivious...the wealthy will be cutting back too, rest assured...

 

[XTW]

Unless all of the people who really can't afford a full "private jet" start slumming it in first class when they need to travel.... NO ONE is immune to this economy....next year many may be saying "glad I didn't follow the fad and go to NetJets." You just never know, so I wouldn't get too comfortable in the losses of some low cost carriers... I choose not to live in a state of oblivious...the wealthy will be cutting back too, rest assured...

Keep in mind that these people are under contracts. They just don't disappear when the economy gets worse. Many of them are conducting business, and the business that keeps them wealthy has to keep going, to keep them wealthy. It isn't that they will just stop going on vacation because fuel prices have risen. JMO.


X

 

[willNOTfly4free]

Since when was working at NetJets a fad?

 

[glasspilot]

This industry has always had it's "fads" or whatever you want to call them. Used to be everyone wanted to work at Pan Am. Once you were there you were set for life...

Eastern was a great career destination. Once you were there you were set for life...

United had an industry leading contract. Once you were there you were set for life...

NetJets has a great industry leading contract. Once you are there you are set for life...


Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it. I just made that up and take full credit for the quote!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Those Netjets customers (and corporate owners) who use private aircraft for BUSINESS probably couldn't do their jobs WITHOUT the aircraft.

Let's try an SAT question.

Scenario A:
Executive "Joe" drives two hours in morning rush hour traffic to the airport, parks in long-term, waits for the shuttle bus, goes inside, checks in at a kiosk, shows his ID, checks his luggage, stands in line at security, removes his shoes...belt...etc., gets frisked anyway, goes to gate and waits again. Meanwhile, some TSA flunky downstairs is opening executive Joe's luggage, going through his underwear, etc. He finally boards, sits next to Tourist "Bob" wearing a wife-beater and attempting to read over Executive Joe's shoulder. The airplane is number 91 in line at LaGarbage and Executive Joe ends up :45 minutes late connecting in Atlanta. He runs to his connection (an RJ where he is unable to fit his laptop on his tray table) and just barely makes it before they push. Arriving in New Orleans Executive Joe waits for his luggage (and waits...and waits), then rents a car -- because Executive Joe's business wasn't in New Orleans, it was in Hammond Lousiana on the north side of the lake. 90 minutes later Joe finally arrives at the plant in Hammond and begins to conduct his business. It's too late to go home, so Executive Joe checks into a hotel. The next day he airlines home and arrives mid-day. He is exhausted from his trip but goes to the office anyway, working well into the night to get caught up from all of the work he was unable to complete while in transit.

Scenario B:
Executive Joe arrives at Teterboro where the crew is waiting. He knows the flight crew by name and has been flying with them for years. A Wall Street Journal was placed on his seat just like he likes it. Within 5 minutes of arriving at the airport engines are started and they taxi out. There is a short delay for flow, but within :30 minutes they are airborne and two hours later are descending towards Hammond. They land at the Hammond airport where a car is waiting to whisk him to the plant. Two hours later, his business complete, he climbs back aboard the waiting aircraft and is airborne within 90 seconds. Enroute back home he works on his laptop, talks on the satellite telephone, and even has time for a short nap before arriving. He is on the ground by 5:30, makes it home in time for dinner with his family and is well rested to begin work the next day.

Question:
What is the value of a Fortune 100 Executive's time?

Our department has actually quantified it and each year we present to the company how much TIME is saved by using corporate aviation versus an alternative. Then we help them attach a dollar amount to that time.

I admit, however, that our company is unique. Our fleet doesn't do any recreational flying. We don't take managers or executives golfing, fishing, hunting etc. The airplanes are used solely to support the business enterprise. I'm always aware that this could go away tomorrow and be replaced by a fractional if we're not competitive.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

Eastern was a great career destination. Once you were there you were set for life...

United had an industry leading contract. Once you were there you were set for life...

NetJets has a great industry leading contract. Once you are there you are set for life...

I understand your thought, but the airlines and NetJets have two different business models. It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

And also note that I am not defending NJA as the end-all, be-all career.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Um... you sure?

Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it. I just made that up and take full credit for the quote!

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." - Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

 

[SKYLAWYER]

I believe in the fractional business model. I think it works very very well for many people. I do know, however, that any business model no matter how great can be destroyed by a bad management team. Over leverage a company, make horrible decisions or bad acquisitions and you find your company unable to sustain itself. The fractional world may be here to stay, there is no gurantee that the major players will be here with them. The airlines model has not disappeared, many of the powehouses have. If the business model is strong enough it will be here, another company can easily be the 800lb gorilla in 5 years.

 

[OCP]

Private Jet Ownership Remains Strong Despite Weak Economy
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal...etsetters-unfazed-weak-economy_546403_22.html

 

[glasspilot]

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." - Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

That's what makes it MY quote and unique from the quote of whoever that Churchill guy is.

 

[learflyer]

This industry has always had it's "fads" or whatever you want to call them. Used to be everyone wanted to work at Pan Am. Once you were there you were set for life...

Eastern was a great career destination. Once you were there you were set for life...

United had an industry leading contract. Once you were there you were set for life...

NetJets has a great industry leading contract. Once you are there you are set for life...


Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it. I just made that up and take full credit for the quote!

I remember Raytheon Travel Air was the place to be until Sanford and son (aka flops) merged with us. we had huge bennies at RTA. The interview was over a beer and a handshake. Some of you guys know what i'm talking about. They could'nt find guys fast enough. One guy met his interviewer at a layover airport somewhere and conducted the interview there! Upgrades were at three months. I remember some airline pilots looking down on us little plane drivers, and asking why i'm not applying to United, Delta, American. My how things have changed.....I'm glad you guys who left the 121 world are happy at your new Fracs, but it used to be the best kept secret!

 

[ArtVandalay]

Just exactly what is the NJ business model? Or do you guys just throw those words out there like you know what you're talking about?

 

[Club ORD FO]

well...the customer/owner more or less directly pays the operating costs.

 

[Flyby1206]

Since when was working at NetJets a fad?

I think that NetJets is a great place to be right now, but 5 years ago nobody talked about it at all. I would love to work there but am aware that no job is secure in aviation. Oil costs will eventually hit owners and contracts may not be renewed. FAA might impose stronger user fees to fund future ATC system on the shoulders of bizjets as well as airliners. Is there anything preventing a foreign company operate biz jets with cheaper labor from TEB-MIA? Again, I think NJA is a great company and I wish them the best and want to get hired as well, but I think it is ignorant to think your future is completely safe and secure.

 

[flyipilot]

Unless all of the people who really can't afford a full "private jet" start slumming it in first class when they need to travel.... NO ONE is immune to this economy....next year many may be saying "glad I didn't follow the fad and go to NetJets." You just never know, so I wouldn't get too comfortable in the losses of some low cost carriers... I choose not to live in a state of oblivious...the wealthy will be cutting back too, rest assured...

You are a silly silly man. I can't stop laughing...whew. Well, we at least know you are not a wealthy person. Go out and meet a few, then tell me if this economy is hurting them.

 

[t-bone]

Is there anything preventing a foreign company operate biz jets with cheaper labor from TEB-MIA?

Yes, that would be cabatoge. And foreign owned companies can't hold an FAA operating certificate.

 

[realityman]

Agreed. I love NJA. And I certainly HOPE that I'll have a long and prosperous career here.

However, I've said it before, NO ONE is immune forever from a bad economy. It will catch up to the fracs eventually. As others have said, it's a question of who will weather the storm best.

I do believe, very strongly, that the fracs are in a better position to weather the storm than the airlines are. As costs go up, we can pass them along to our owners faster and easier than the airlines can to their pax. And as someone else mentioned, our clients have contracts which prevent immediate departures from the program.

Now, will they renew at the end of the contract? How many fuel surcharges and extras tacked onto the bill will they tolerate? We haven't reached the breaking point yet. But maybe it's very close?

The whole point being, I feel much more secure working at a frac right now than I would at an airline, but that doesn't mean the job will be here forever. I'm kinda hoping though.

 

[realityman]

t-bone, depending on what kind of open skies agreement our government comes up with, that may not be the case forever. A little scary.

The only thing truly protecting us right now is that it's still VERY expensive to live almost anywhere overseas that has a good supply of pilots, and any company that wants to seriously undercut the current fracs will need very cheap labor. I'm not sure how many foreign pilots can be recruited to do this kind of work for bargain basement salaries over there.

And FLOPS has tried to make a business out of undercutting the prices of the other fracs, and it hasn't worked out too terribly well for them.

Basically, a Citation XL from another country over here will still burn the same fuel, incur the same maintenance costs, pay the same landing fees, and all the other expenses as the current fracs. the only real place to significantly cut costs will be labor. And that brings it right on back to the cost of living overseas and will there be lots of pilots willing to work for peanuts.

 

[t-bone]

Shows how much I understand Open Skies!!! Thanks for the the explanation. I thought it would only affect 121 operators, didn't realize it could affect us 135 folks as well.