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Usapa Doesn't Have It Together

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"USAPA this, USAPA that. I'm so sick of hearing about USAPA. Yeah we all know that USAPA requires pilot ratification on things like pension elimination.

But gee whiz, besides USAPA giving pilots the right to vote, what makes them so special?"


:p
 
If you detractors truly believe ALPA is the only show, you're fooling yourself. We did a detailed analysis about 20 years ago about the feasibility of replacing ALPO and it was extremely simple to duplicate if not exceed the services provided by ALPO. If ALPO is voted off the property, I don't think any pilot will find themselves lacking any existing service. Do you think any vendor of either medical or legal services is not going to shop for the contract of some 3000 pilots? You are fooling yourself. I suppose if you tell yourself how great ALPO is, eventually you will start to believe it. As a past member of that crooked organization for over 37 years, I say good riddance and I only wish it happened 20 years ago.



Bet that yellow lanyard goes real well with that uniform hat you like wearing while walking throught the terminal building, huh Poppy? :rolleyes:


PHXFLYR :cool:
 
Dear US Airways Pilots,

My name is Roger Hall. I have been with Continental Airlines for 18 years. I am writing this to shed some truth about the recent letter you received from Jay Peirce, the MEC Chairman at Continental Airlines. I am also writing this to urge to vote for USAPA.

Let me start by saying that in 2001, I wanted nothing more than to have ALPA on the property here at Continental. Growing up and watching my father serve as an ALPA LEC Rep and Council Chairman had made me believe that ALPA was the way to go. I always knew that my father was fighting for either the career preservation or improvement of his fellow pilots. When we here at CAL were faced with the vote I thought it was a simple choice. I talked my father and was shocked when he told me it was best to stay Independent and that it will be the better choice for the long haul. He told me of the pitfalls and of how little power the pilots really have under ALPA. He warned that once some of the so called volunteers were in, they became lifers motivated by self interest and said I need look no farther than the one MEC vice-chairmen of the eighties, he is still wearing a suit and tie and he is the VP of Finance today. You will pay for the all the trapping, pomp and circumstance of a national union with no sense of the profession and receive less efficient bargaining and be tied to policies that try to serve to many masters and likely not serve your own pilot group well. Well I didn’t listen I voted ALPA and regret it now more that ever.

It didn’t take long to realize that it was a mistake. Contract ’02 negotiations were delayed from the start following the 9/11 Attacks. Airline management used this against all Airlines. We saw A Plans go, some without union ratification, pay cuts, work rule changes, and the list goes on. Well instead of ALPA National standing up and rallying all the Airline pilots to fight the fight, ALPA sat back and watched each airline go their own way. Meanwhile APA, the union that represents American Pilots didn’t back down that easy. Despite the fact that they were near bankruptcy the fought back against Management theft and preserved their A Plan, maintained the best B Plan in the industry and had snap back provisions.

Here at CAL under the first and only ALPA contract I have experienced, things are not better, they are worse. Keep in mind that we were not threatened by Bankruptcy or in Bankruptcy like American or US Airways. We had a CEO that told us we are better than everyone else, our cost are lower, and that we are prepared to fly into the future with our young fleet. Yet the independent union at APA far out negotiated our ALPA contingent and the engineered the replacement of their CEO to boot.

Here are just a few things that were given up;

-Replacing line construction with a preferential bidding system that is a mess. PBS doesn’t fully honor seniority and if you are not a program specialist every month is a crap shoot. Pilots are putting off upgrade and transitions because the schedules are so bad. We have pilots in the 60% holding B757/B767 Captain and 2 year pilots as B737 Captains because no body wants them. Well more than a thousand pilots bypassed upgrade to Captain.

-The way our Vacations and training are credited make for an awful bid month. I hold a better schedule without vacation than I do with a vacation week.

-Our Frozen A plan is just that frozen not protected.

-We have no Snap Back. ALPA negotiations will start below where ALPA experts left us 6 years ago.

-There is no Schedule Improvement again because of PBS.

-As Part of Contract ’02, we had a side letter that protected us in case the other Union Groups didn’t ratify their contracts. We didn’t have to honor our contract until such a time that all employees took pay cuts. Well that side letter didn’t last ONE DAY. Our then MEC Chairman, Captain Jay Panarello, gave CAL Management the green light for the concessions, WITHOUT Membership Approval. Is this really what you want in a Union.

Ladies and Gentlemen we are not better off with ALPA. There is no National Unity, there is no National Expertise, there is No 61,000 Strong, there is No Merger Protection, No Seniority Protection, No Insurance or Medical protection. All of the above can be attained or protected just as easy with an Independent Union. I am working under the worse conditions of my career. Other than hourly rate I had a better Quality of life under the Old Frank Lorenzo Pilot Employment Policy when hired in 1990 than I do under an ALPA Contract.

Remember You are the Union, You are what makes it strong and you have the chance to Own your Union and not come second the interest of others or the Union itself. Just ask yourself, are the pilots at Southwest, UPS, American, AirTran worse off than us ALPA Carriers, or has their Independent Unions served them well?

In closing I am embarrassed of our Union President, in 15 moths at the helm he has signed a Comair concessionary contract, and done more to divide pilots than anyone before him. While we all continue to live in an uncertain environment with Losses in Pay and Quality of Life, our fearless leaders continue to live like fat cats. I ask, “John Prater, How is that taking it back?”

I fully support the USAPA efforts and will continue to see all pilots as my brothers and sisters no matter what the paint scheme on the airframe is. I urge each and everyone of you to vote for USAPA.

Fraternally,

Roger Hall II
EWR B737 Captain
 
Three times? This letter has no teeth. It is simply opinion. Next!!

If Rog' is urging a vote for USAPA.. perhaps he can explian how USAPA is going to pay for itself....

There is no money. Every pilot must send in $200.
 
And if ALPA was plotting to disenfranchise 1800 pilots wouldn't you be jumping up and down and screaming bloody murder? Yet it's OK for USAPA to do that? It's a shame that a perceptive critic of the current state of affairs at ALPA such as yourself has chosen to marginalize himself with his support for the misguided imbeciles running the East show.

I know that our MEC disenfranchised over 70% of our pilots to kiss Prater's AS! and give a yes vote for Age 65. Didn't see any ALPA apologists screaming bloody murder about that.
 
Three times? This letter has no teeth. It is simply opinion. Next!!

If Rog' is urging a vote for USAPA.. perhaps he can explian how USAPA is going to pay for itself....

There is no money. Every pilot must send in $200.
Rez, why do you care so much about the 200? USAPA unlike ALPA has not been collecting dues for decades. So in order to get the coffers up to acceptable levels they need an early assessment. Of course unless your an idiot you know this. (by the way I dont think you are an idiot) I do however thing you are an ALPA cheerleader of the highest order, and your hundreds of posts proclaiming all the wonders of ALPA back that up.
You remind me of people ruled by a dictator that have nothing but the highest praise of their leader, no matter what the question. (from Airplane with gun to reporters head) "today a building burned down making way for a glorious new tractor factory"
Its become all quite comical.
 
Rez...there are alot of US Air pilots that would gladly pay 200...500 whatever to get rid of ALPA...It's really not that much money in today's day and age.
 
An ALPA cheerleader complaining about 200 dollars in dues.....that is priceless.....A typical Herndon bar tab is more.....

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Three times? This letter has no teeth. It is simply opinion. Next!!

If Rog' is urging a vote for USAPA.. perhaps he can explian how USAPA is going to pay for itself....

There is no money. Every pilot must send in $200.


The same way the APA, NPA, SWAPA, and IPA manage to fund themselves. Amazing that they're still around to this date! :rolleyes:

stlflyguy
 
NMB voting in progress. Not bad for broke grass roots USAPA. All ALPA preaches now is Fear. What are they doing? Protecting USAirways pilots from themselves? Or is it the loss of 12 million in dues per year to the mother ship. My hunch is it's the money. SWA, UPS, AirTran, APA...how on earth have they made it without ALPA I wonder?
 
NMB voting in progress. Not bad for broke grass roots USAPA. All ALPA preaches now is Fear. What are they doing? Protecting USAirways pilots from themselves? Or is it the loss of 12 million in dues per year to the mother ship. My hunch is it's the money. SWA, UPS, AirTran, APA...how on earth have they made it without ALPA I wonder?

ALPA hasn't spent this much effort on any of the real problems....they are trying to protect the dues money.....
 
So by your logic... Voting in USAPA doesn't change the Nic award.

Hmmm.. seems that is what was trying to be accomplished with the Rice Committee. So why the need for USAPA. What is USAPA going to do differently?

You get it, don't you? You're certainly on these boards enough to have picked up on the strategy by now! In the current ALPA environment there is a stalemate. East has packed their toys up and left the JNC, so no contract progress. And the Rice committee had as much luck as the merger committees had before the arbitration. East side can keep the Nic on the shelf, but that means LOA 03 forever. West's only way to a joint contract is to concede fences to Nic. Without the joint contract, west stagnation continues indefinitely. You'd think there would be enough motivation on both sides to get a deal done, but the USAPA drive has got in the way.

USAPA promises to break the logjam by "unifying" the two groups under one MEC, thereby giving up the dual ratification protections of the transition agreement. In theory, they go to mngt, negotiate a DOH list in exchange for a MESA-caliber contract, and then use the tyranny of the majority to cram it down the west's throats. Unfortunately, this plan relies on some dubious assumptions. First, they assume Parker can be bought and is stupid enough to embroil the company in years of litigation for backing out of a previously accepted arbitration award. Next, they ignore significant case law that clearly shows that the award is not going away and can't simply be replaced at the whims of the majority. Finally, they assume that they can ratify a bottom-of-the-industry contract even when it won't even come close to the terms offered by mngt in April '07.

End result? Not pretty. No seniority list agreement, no joint contract, LOA 93 indefinitely, and a big DFR lawsuit from the west. East pilots will be paying this "union" assessment bucks like a Vegas slot machine.
 
The same way the APA, NPA, SWAPA, and IPA manage to fund themselves. Amazing that they're still around to this date! :rolleyes:
Careful how much glee you take in ALPA's potential downfall. We TWA'ers would've loved for an arbitrator to have had a go at our integration with the APA. USAPA wants to undue the results of the fair process we engaged in. ALPA is the lesser of two evils here.
 
Rez, why do you care so much about the 200? USAPA unlike ALPA has not been collecting dues for decades. So in order to get the coffers up to acceptable levels they need an early assessment. Of course unless your an idiot you know this. (by the way I dont think you are an idiot) I do however thing you are an ALPA cheerleader of the highest order, and your hundreds of posts proclaiming all the wonders of ALPA back that up.
You remind me of people ruled by a dictator that have nothing but the highest praise of their leader, no matter what the question. (from Airplane with gun to reporters head) "today a building burned down making way for a glorious new tractor factory"
Its become all quite comical.

Hardly.... if that is your perception. ALPA has many faults. We need to change ...yesterday. Same with our gov't. Shall we rid ourselves of the US Constitution are start something new? If so.. what?

That is the big question. What is the better deal? USAPA? Ok.. but what is so innovative about USAPA? So revolutionary?

The reason why I champion ALPA so much.. is not becuase it ALPA, but becuase it is all we have.

No one cares about Pilots except us pilots. And we can't even stay at our own table. We constantly divide and fight. And that is ALPA fault? No.. that is everyones fault. Is the insitution of marriage flawed? Does it take two spouses to fight?

We really do not take individual repsonsibility when participating in our careers.


So what happens when a people organization, like ALPA, screws up? Well many people quit. Leave the table, pack up their toys and go home.

What do you do in your own people organization... say your family? What do you do when your teenage kid screws up? reject him/her? Sure it is easier to walk away....


Rez...there are alot of US Air pilots that would gladly pay 200...500 whatever to get rid of ALPA...It's really not that much money in today's day and age.


End result? Not pretty. No seniority list agreement, no joint contract, LOA 93 indefinitely, and a big DFR lawsuit from the west. East pilots will be paying this "union" assessment bucks like a Vegas slot machine.

$200 is just the beginning. $200 is not much in this day? It doesn't matter. The question is... does $200 have value? In addition, the $200 that USAPA is asking for is just the cover charge. There will be plenty of ala carte charges thru assessments of the years. In addition, one of the reason why USAPA wants money is becuase it doesn't have free labor: volunteers. Just like ALPA and other unions, its a small percentage of volunteers doing most of the work.

If USAPA was such a great revolution, then you'd think more guys would be volunteering!! But just like ALPA's problems, its really about "what's in it for me"
 
SWA, UPS, AirTran, APA...how on earth have they made it without ALPA I wonder?
They haven't. Every single one of them sends tons of money to ALPA to pay for various services. They couldn't survive without ALPA's help.
 
The same way the APA, NPA, SWAPA, and IPA manage to fund themselves. Amazing that they're still around to this date! :rolleyes:

stlflyguy

UCRAPA has zero in common with those other unions. If UCRAPA is successful, they will have 1800 non-dues paying non-members. All of which we be donating their dues money and then some to contribute to UCRAPA's demise.
 
They haven't. Every single one of them sends tons of money to ALPA to pay for various services. They couldn't survive without ALPA's help.

Now that's the part they never seem to get!! Every single independant airline union buys services from ALPA. Now USAPA thinks it can hire one if it's first officers to head up aero medical. Aside from the major conflict of interest here my big question is why this first officer is flying instead of practicing medicine!?!?

Dr. Hudson spent years, YEARS!! developing a relationship with the FAA and usapa thinks they can march in and duplicate that????? Two words come to mind, CRACK KILLS!!!!!

WD.
 
Now that's the part they never seem to get!! Every single independant airline union buys services from ALPA. Now USAPA thinks it can hire one if it's first officers to head up aero medical. Aside from the major conflict of interest here my big question is why this first officer is flying instead of practicing medicine!?!?

Dr. Hudson spent years, YEARS!! developing a relationship with the FAA and usapa thinks they can march in and duplicate that????? Two words come to mind, CRACK KILLS!!!!!

WD.
Dr. Hudson is one of the greatest resources that ALPA has. That guy is worth his weight in gold. We used to have a pilot in charge of handling Aeromedical issues at AirTran. Thankfully he resigned and we've got a contract now with a real group of doctors called VFS. Still not as good as ALPA Aeromedical, but much better than this crazy idea of having line pilots handling medical issues. :rolleyes:
 
Dr. Hudson is one of the greatest resources that ALPA has. That guy is worth his weight in gold. We used to have a pilot in charge of handling Aeromedical issues at AirTran. Thankfully he resigned and we've got a contract now with a real group of doctors called VFS. Still not as good as ALPA Aeromedical, but much better than this crazy idea of having line pilots handling medical issues. :rolleyes:

I agree about Dr. Hudson. I had the opportunity to meet him last month for the first time. Like I said the relationship between ALPA medical and the FAA have been forged over years.

WD.
 

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