Usapa Doesn't Have It Together

[Wiskey Driver]

Qqq

,;lnm;

 

[Wiskey Driver]

,;lnm;

BEHIND THE SCENES OF USAPA INSURANCE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is clear to anybody paying attention that USAPA's only plan is to purchase a date-of-hire seniority list from Doug Parker with a cost neutral contract. There is no back up plan, and there are few if any plans to address any of the other representational needs of pilots (and particularly the needs of America West pilots). There has been little thought given by USAPA to other representation matters. Obviously, a union whose slogan is "Seniority Matters" is willing to accept the loss of important representational protections in pursuit of the ultimate goal of stapling 90% of another pilot group to the bottom of the seniority list.

Don't believe us?

Consider how USAPA has responded to the "noise" (USAPA's term) that ALPA has made in regards to insurance products. Insurance might seem like a small component of union representation to some, but over 2500 pilots East and West use ALPA insurance products. Because of the overwhelming concern of those pilots, ALPA sent out an informational mailer about insurance in mid-February. Prior to that mailer, USAPA had done little to address that issue.

Still don't believe us?

Consider the following email from USAPA Communications Chairman Scott Theuer to the other USAPA leaders (we've highlighted some interesting points):

From: "Scott Theuer"

To: "USAPA President-Bradford Steve" , , "USAPA-Sec Treas-King Mark"



Subject: Insurance, Aeromedical and Line of Credit

Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:27:03 -0500

Gents,

Unfortunately, because it has taken us awhile, ALPA has, through a spiffy glossy mailer delivered today, defined our insurance response for us. It is:

These are the products we need to offer:

Monthly Loss-of-License (must be "own-occupation")

Lump-Sum Loss-of-License (must be "own-occupation")

Group Term Life (without any exclusions)

Ten-Year-Level Term Life (without any exclusions other than suicide)

Short-Term Disability (must be "own-occupation")

AD&D

Long-Term Care

We need to be able to supply these without requiring new medical evidence of insurability, and without pre-existing condition limits. Also, we committed to insuring non-members , ALPA says this is not possible.


Costs must be competitive.

Life insurance must be available as a "transfer" program.

We need specifics on plan design, limitations, or exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

We need to be able to refute the claim that by having the insurance companies responsible for the support, enrollment, billing and claim processing it will still be competitive cost-wise.

I've just spoken to Harvey Watt regarding my own insurance. To-date, they have no LOL insurance available for age 60-65. ALPA says, "ALPA is in the process of amending plans affected by the age change to incorporate extension of active members to age 65 where possible, without new evidence of insurability requirements." This will be a problem.

Insurance roll-over applications must be available so that on day one, a pilot is covered.

>From ALPA, "For a true transfer to occur, a USAPA member would wake up in the morning after the ALPA termination with exactly the same terms. and no additional hoops to go through to keep what the member had with ALPA. We think it unlikely that any insurance carrier would go unprotected into that risky situation."

Then, there's Aeromedical. All the following is my opinion: Pete's a good guy, and highly respected. However, we're fussing around with him, and (to-date) he has said he will not work with/above/under Harvey Watt. Pete is developing his "own program." I believe there is zero chance that Pete could have a credible Aeromedical program, staffed by more than just Pete, up-and-running on day one. (If anyone noticed, he actually said, on video, that it would be difficult to replace ALPA Aeromedical and "of course it wouldn't all be running on day one." Wrong answer.) Spike's been talking to him, but we're not making any real headway. In my opinion, at the very least, it's Harvey Watt. It might be Harvey Watt with Pete as a liaison or over-seeing. It might be Harvey Watt with Pete taking the "difficult" cases.

It might be Harvey Watt now and Pete later. But it's Harvey Watt, with or without Pete, and we need to get a contract and plan setup ASAP. Spike was trying to setup a meeting with Pete on the 26th - Pete said he's unavailable the entire day. Spike's now working on afternoon or evening of the 25th.

Spike will be here, and I am available. While I am willing to do this with just Spike, it's not really my gig. He knows Steve B. better and Steve's President so I think, unless it is impossible Steve should be there too.

So, I believe we need, within the next very few days, the following:

Commitments and contracts on all the above insurance products, with complete and full details

Aeromedical plan contracted and committed-to, with all plan details available

A commitment on our Line of Credit. The bank has had more than enough time to make this decision, and we now have an election. In my view I would call them on Monday, and let them know that absent a commitment by end-of-business we're shopping our business (which I think we should be doing anyway). I can get a signature loan for damn near a year's salary.

We're asking for a line of credit worth 13% of our annual CONTRACTED income.

I have multiple credit cards, each with 15-20% of my annual income in credit line. They should have committed two weeks ago.

Anything that is missing or unaddressed from all the above items will be picked-up on by ALPA.

I don't mean to be an alarmist Gents, but we have fires going everywhere which will be challenging enough; we shouldn't even be dealing with basic infrastructure and services 53 days out. By the end of this week, I would like to be able to address every one of the above items. At that point we'll be 47 days out. I believe our internal deadline for services and complete infrastructure should be 40 days, and not a day less. Even at that point we will start losing credibility and votes. After 30, ALPA will eat us alive.

Right now, 5,300 pilots have nothing more than our promise that they will have services, Reps, insurance and Aeromedical in 53 days. For a group as downtrodden as this, I'm amazed they've hung in there this long. I believe we will start losing them soon.

Again, not trying to scream too loud, but did I mention we have 53 days?

Scott



After receiving the above email, USAPA's fearless self-appointed leader, Steve Bradford, desperately forwarded it to Harvey Watt:

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:40 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: Fwd: Insurance, Aeromedical and Line of Credit

xxx,

The other side is starting to beat us up. This is an election. One of USAPA's weapons in this election is Harvey Watt. We have no ammunition. We need product!

The "perfect is the enemy of the good." Please light a fire under your ING guys or whomever is going to supply this product and tell them that the other side is beating us because we cannot put contracts on the table.

Thanks

Steve Bradford

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Where do we even begin!! Looks like reality and logic is starting to replace euphoric emotion...

Here are quotes that acknowledge that USAPA is way over there heads...out of their league.... and recall this was over a month ago!!!


Top Ten:

Unfortunately, because it has taken us awhile, ALPA has, through a spiffy glossy mailer delivered today, defined our insurance response for us.

This will be a problem.

I believe there is zero chance that Pete could have a credible Aeromedical program,

I have multiple credit cards, each with 15-20% of my annual income in credit line.

I don't mean to be an alarmist Gents, but we have fires going everywhere which will be challenging enough; we shouldn't even be dealing with basic infrastructure and services 53 days out.

Right now, 5,300 pilots have nothing more than our promise

For a group as downtrodden as this, I'm amazed they've hung in there this long.

I believe we will start losing them soon.

Again, not trying to scream too loud, but did I mention we have 53 days?

The other side is starting to beat us up.

Plus two extras....

Please light a fire under your ING guys or whomever ..........other side is beating us because we cannot put contracts on the table.

Thanks

Steve Bradford

Bradford.... do you realize how you will be going down in Airline/Union History?


These quotes cleary state that USAPA doesn't even know IF they will get these services. Not WHEN but IF!

All you USAPA hopefuls have is promises and request from Bradford to send in more of your money... The ability of USAPA to survive is based on personal credit card limits of the USAPA leadership.... sounds romanitc in way... but not realistic!!


If you voted for USAPA when the polls open and know that you cannot change your vote... that sickening gut sinking feeling should be setting in....

 

[Flyingcat]

I am not an airline pilot. I am however employed in a unionized position and happen to have lots of friends that are airline pilots. I think there is enough political jockeying on both sides. This is no different than any other heated political election. I think rather than relying on what each other say about what the other union can or can not do on this forum you should seek direct answers you might have from the horses mouth.
http://1.usairlinepilots.org/rumor_control.htm

http://crewroom.alpa.org/aaa/DesktopDefault.aspx

Debate over issues is a great democratic tool. I think when you take what someone said out of context you are doing your fellow aviators a great disservice.

I hope I am not out of line saying this. Reading these boards are suppose to be entertaining and informative. What I have read the last few months has been as entertaining as the WWE and about as truthful as well. The issues are so emotional that you guys are taking one thing that has been said and twist it and turn it to to meet your needs whether your an ALPA or USAPA supporter.

I wish all the US Airways pilots much luck in the future whichever union ends up representing you.

Just my two cents from a fair weather pilot!

 

[Guppiedriver]

I think rather than relying on what each other say about what the other union can or can not do on this forum you should seek direct answers you might have from the horses mouth.

Not when the horse is talking out of both sides of it's mouth.

This is just one example of UCRAPA's smoke and mirrors campaign. I cut and pasted this from their rumor control section.

"I heard USAPA has already decided that their strategy is to obtain a cost-neutral contract." FALSE A gross misrepresentation of the facts, designed to mislead and misinform.

This is a video from one of their road shows.

http://1.usairlinepilots.org/audio-video/video/Lee%20Sehem%20F_What%20Happens%20to%20the%20Nicolau%20Award_384K_Stream.wmv

 

[PositiveRate]

Their wheels are coming off now....

No insurance commitments
No aeromedical commitments
No line of credit from the bank
And the list goes on and on and on....

This is a request to vote away every bit of protection ALPA can offer for 1 more chance to staple the AWA pilots - It will fail either way. It's a request that, at every step in this merger, has not passed muster and fallen flat on its face - negotiations (no DOH), mediation (no DOH, arbitration (no DOH). Why you yellow fools have any hope that you will succeed with USAPA defies all reason.

Might I remind you, that the list was pre-agreed to before arbitration, has been accepted by ALPA and more importantly the company.

Oh, and bytheway, the company before any of this took place said they will only accept a list that is relative seniority in nature, does not displace active with furloughed, does not materially affect training costs, etc. You will be laughed out of CHQ with any new list proposal as the company will not expose themselves to that legal sh^tstorm.

DOH is not a basic tenant of unionism - UNITY and strength in numbers is the basic foundation on which unionism is built. USAPA volunteers away unity for the promise they can not keep.

From Scott Thuer and Steve Bradford - 'there is no plan B' - as scary as that statement is, in my impression, there really isn't even a plan A. This is just basterdized anger taken way way too far. DOH will be a non starter with the West, the company and any legal venue this is brought to. In the meantime, someone will have to RUN A UNION and all that entails and these guys have plainly shown they are woefully unprepared and incapable of anything beyond promising that which cannot be promised.

These guys think their fighting fires now? News flash, people will get sick, get violated, get in fights with crewmembers, have substance abuse issues, shoot holes in airplanes, need legal defense, file grievences, etc. at the EXACT same rate the day after the vote is tallied. Your little DOH quest is going to be overwhelmed by the business of running a UNION - real life will be far from running an anger & promises campaign and reality will smack you in the nuts in a way you can't even conceive.

When it's all said in done, any US Airways pilot who votes for this scam will have no one to blame but the face in the mirror. Who will you blame next...your USAPA leaders for selling you short? When will you take personal responsibility and realize the only path to real change and unity lies with ALPA. It's not only the right choice, it's the only viable choice.

It's a losing battle and a fool's errand. Think long and hard about your vote. This is about you, but it's also about many many other pilots and their families. My paycheck feeds my family and pays my mortgage and you want to willfully make that paycheck less valuable and less secure. How far will you let your anger take you before you realize what a terrible path you've chosen?

 

[JoeMerchant]

So do any of you ALPA flag wavers think there will be much unity on the AAA property even if ALPA stays? I don't see it happening either way.......

 

[CaptBud330]

ALPA is NOT the only show in town

If you detractors truly believe ALPA is the only show, you're fooling yourself. We did a detailed analysis about 20 years ago about the feasibility of replacing ALPO and it was extremely simple to duplicate if not exceed the services provided by ALPO. If ALPO is voted off the property, I don't think any pilot will find themselves lacking any existing service. Do you think any vendor of either medical or legal services is not going to shop for the contract of some 3000 pilots? You are fooling yourself. I suppose if you tell yourself how great ALPO is, eventually you will start to believe it. As a past member of that crooked organization for over 37 years, I say good riddance and I only wish it happened 20 years ago.

 

[regionaltard]

Not when the horse is talking out of both sides of it's mouth.

Or the end opposite its mouth for that matter.

 

[regionaltard]

So do any of you ALPA flag wavers think there will be much unity on the AAA property even if ALPA stays? I don't see it happening either way.......

And if ALPA was plotting to disenfranchise 1800 pilots wouldn't you be jumping up and down and screaming bloody murder? Yet it's OK for USAPA to do that? It's a shame that a perceptive critic of the current state of affairs at ALPA such as yourself has chosen to marginalize himself with his support for the misguided imbeciles running the East show.

 

[JoeMerchant]

And if ALPA was plotting to disenfranchise 1800 pilots wouldn't you be jumping up and down and screaming bloody murder? Yet it's OK for USAPA to do that? It's a shame that a perceptive critic of the current state of affairs at ALPA such as yourself has chosen to marginalize himself with his support for the misguided imbeciles running the East show.

USAPA and this Charlie Foxtrot wouldn't be happening if ALPA had dealt with the issue of seniority and the resulting p!$$ing contest that always results in these cases...We are seeing it on the DAL/NWA threads also......I'm not pro-USAPA....I'm anti-ALPA.....

This could be the wake-up call ALPA needs.....

Don't forget the AWA folks almost dumped ALPA several years ago.....

The current structure of ALPA encourages this "every man for themselves" battle.....The smaller group usually loses....

 

[PositiveRate]

Hey Bud,

If it's so easy, then why have the 'yellow ones' made very little progress? I mean, your feasability study from 20 years ago said it should be a snap right?!?! All signs currently point towards lesser protections, products and services if ANY AT ALL. 3 weeks and counting...the promises are starting to unravel.

Maybe you should email the USAPA folks and offer to help...they seem to be waiting for ALPA to tell them what they need to set up. You might want to call their bank too and encourage them to extend their credit line - that seems to be a pressing issue as well.

USAPA is a scam - it's not a union. There is no comparison to be made with a group whose premise is built on disenfranchising over 30% of it's members.

Thanks for the comments, though, BUD - they were truly useless.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

What would happen if USAPA was elected and could not deliver on any of the items previously mentioned?

This is not meant to flame, just a question from someone not in the know.

 

[PositiveRate]

There would be a sh^tstorm of blame and finger pointing on the East saying, but "you told us it was simple...the execution of the constitution & bylaws garaunteed us DOH." As usual, no one will take responsibility or admit that it was a path to failure that they willingly voted for. A stupid gamble indeed.

To be short, if USAPA wins you wil get to see exactly this as they slowly fail to make good on each and every empty promise they have made.

A union that by nature divides and disenfranchises its own will fail as a organization and, in turn, will fail us all. USAPA offers nothing concrete except feel good taglines and promises from a lawyer who gets paid to forward your agenda. Reality will be a huge wakeup call to FO Bradford.

 

[JoeMerchant]

A union that by nature divides and disenfranchises its own will fail as a organization and, in turn, will fail us all. USAPA offers nothing concrete except feel good taglines and promises from a lawyer who gets paid to forward your agenda. Reality will be a huge wakeup call to FO Bradford.

The very same could be said of ALPA.....Your statement is correct about any union....it applies to ALPA also....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The very same could be said of ALPA.....Your statement is correct about any union....it applies to ALPA also....

How so Joe?

can you also tell us how the National Sen List would work?

Also, not sure if you replied.. How much did the RJDC cost you guys?

 

[Thebadcat1313]

So do any of you ALPA flag wavers think there will be much unity on the AAA property even if ALPA stays? I don't see it happening either way.......

Actually, there was great unity on the property right up until the point where Nicolau released the award. We had picketing demonstrations and progress was being made on a joint contract. It can be that way again if USAPA is voted down and we can put this silliness behind us. Don't get me wrong, I know ALPA has its' faults, but a union is only as good as its members and their level of commitment. The problems can be fixed IF we can do away with the apathy that plagues most airline pilots these days.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually, there was great unity on the property right up until the point where Nicolau released the award. We had picketing demonstrations and progress was being made on a joint contract. It can be that way again if USAPA is voted down and we can put this silliness behind us. Don't get me wrong, I know ALPA has its' faults, but a union is only as good as its members and their level of commitment. The problems can be fixed IF we can do away with the apathy that plagues most airline pilots these days.

Seniority trumps all "brotherhood" in this business.....You said yourself that it was Nicolau that started this.....Stopping USAPA doesn't change the Nicolau award....If you want to stop USAPA....you have to come up with a more fair integration method.....

It has been said that the 3 most important things in this business are seniority, seniority, and seniority....Screw with that and there won't be any unity....no matter who the union is.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Seniority trumps all "brotherhood" in this business.....You said yourself that it was Nicolau that started this.....Stopping USAPA doesn't change the Nicolau award....If you want to stop USAPA....you have to come up with a more fair integration method.....

So by your logic... Voting in USAPA doesn't change the Nic award.

Hmmm.. seems that is what was trying to be accomplished with the Rice Committee. So why the need for USAPA. What is USAPA going to do differently?

It has been said that the 3 most important things in this business are seniority, seniority, and seniority....Screw with that and there won't be any unity....no matter who the union is.....

No matter who the union is? Then whats this USAPA business... ??


Gee Joe... some one else posted what I've been posting... so .. is he a cheerleader too?

 

[Marko Ramius]

What would happen if USAPA was elected and could not deliver on any of the items previously mentioned?

This is not meant to flame, just a question from someone not in the know.

I don't know anymore than the next guy, but I expect that if USAPA gets in then they will eventually change back to ALPA after their list run and this potential merger run in the industry is over. Probably sometime before UsAPA gets to negotiate a 2nd contract.