Parker Changing the list......or not!!!

[abefly]

Here is an old letter found on the hub. I especially like the highlighted part. But Parker is going to negotiate seniority with the Usapa folk. Get real people. It would cost the company millions in law suits from the west pilots.

Doug comments on pilot seniority integration.
</SPAN>May 19, 2007
To: US Airways Pilots
I have received a number of questions and comments from pilots regarding what the Company can do in relation to the recent seniority integration arbitration decision. While I’ve been responding to them individually, I thought in this case it would make sense to update the entire pilot workforce.
First, let me begin with the facts -- the Company’s role in the seniority integration process is extremely limited. We, along with the East and West ALPA MECs, entered in to a Transition Agreement in September 2005 that addressed a number of issues, including the Company’s role in pilot seniority integration. The Agreement states that the integrated seniority list will be determined in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy and then submitted to the Company by national ALPA for acceptance. The Company is then to evaluate the list to determine compliance with five criteria set forth in the Transition Agreement. Those criteria are:

1. No "system flush" whereby an active pilot may displace any other active pilot from the latter's Position.
2. Furloughed pilots may not bump/displace active pilots.
3. No requirement for pilots to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g., differential pay for a position not actually flown).
4. Allows pilots who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, are in the process of completing or who have completed initial qualification training for a new category (e.g., A320 Captain or 757 First Officer) to be assigned to the position for which they have been trained, regardless of their relative standing on the integrated seniority list.
5. Does not contain conditions and restrictions that materially increase costs associated with training or company paid moves.

If all of the criteria are satisfied, the Company must accept the list.
So, where are we now? First, while we all know that the arbitrator has made a determination, national ALPA has not yet submitted a list to the Company for acceptance. Whenever we do receive a list, we will review it for compliance using the standards listed above, but as you can see, the criteria is pretty straightforward and well defined.
Please do not take a lack of involvement to mean that the Company is not interested in this important issue. I have heard from many of you about how much this award could potentially affect you and your family, and I care about that very much. What I am saying is that the integration of seniority (other than compliance with the negotiated criteria) is a union process to manage and the Company cannot do anything unilaterally to affect this award.
I know that both pilot groups have very strong feelings on this subject and emotions are running high, but I’d ask that we please don’t let this process and the emotion around it drive us to a place that will make it difficult to work together in the future. As this unfolds, please be respectful of each other’s position and professional as always.
We’ll continue to monitor the process and I’ll let you know if anything develops regarding the Company’s involvement.

Doug

 

[Fubijaakr]

At least he seems to understand what the term "binding arbitration" means.

 

[On Your Six]

Again, food for thought with regard to the potential NWA/DAL hookup. Expect problems and hurt feelings with binding arbitration - DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

At least he seems to understand what the term "binding arbitration" means.

Amazing, huh? An alcoholic moron seems to understand these things better than the uSAPa saps.

 

[Fubijaakr]

It is remarkable.

 

[BeCareful!]

PARKER SAID: I know that both pilot groups have very strong feelings on this subject and emotions are running high, but I’d ask that we please don’t let this process and the emotion around it drive us to a place that will make it difficult to work together in the future. As this unfolds, please be respectful of each other’s position and professional as always."""


I like this part and how it relates to the West ALPA reps and supporters on this board. Wiskey Driver's doing a hell of a job complying with Doug's request.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

PARKER SAID: I know that both pilot groups have very strong feelings on this subject and emotions are running high, but I’d ask that we please don’t let this process and the emotion around it drive us to a place that will make it difficult to work together in the future. As this unfolds, please be respectful of each other’s position and professional as always."""


I like this part and how it relates to the West ALPA reps and supporters on this board. Wiskey Driver's doing a hell of a job complying with Doug's request.

Sorry man got off that high road altitude sickness from having been here so long due to clowns that can't seem to honor their obligations. You wouldn't know anything about that now would you?? Here's a little advice, give respect get respect, I'm not the one bro so you may want to think about that when you come in contact with me.

WD.

 

[BeCareful!]

Sorry man got off that high road altitude sickness from having been here so long due to clowns that can't seem to honor their obligations. You wouldn't know anything about that now would you?? Here's a little advice, give respect get respect, I'm not the one bro so you may want to think about that when you come in contact with me.

WD.

An apology, a snide remark, and then some advice. You been drinking, WD?

Obligation? I feel I have an obligation to help rid this pilot group of ALPA. Prater, AAA, all of them.

WD, you don't know what I know, and I don't have the time to tell you. On another thread, Crzipilot and Fr8master detail some of what has happened to ALPA's "democratic" process.

If you like ALPA, I'm sorry for you. If you like the Nic and it's ironclad like you all say, then I'm happy for you. You'll win big in the end, because there is some fantastic seniority for the vast majority of West pilots. If you're going to rant and rave and dispute that point again, then we are done. Every time you guys try to make the Nic look bad for the West you look like @$$holes.

In the end, I believe the Nic will be viewed as a bad thing for everyone, because it, along with ALPA's deplorable handling of the situation, is going to cost us all a tremendous amount.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

An apology, a snide remark, and then some advice. You been drinking, WD?

Obligation? I feel I have an obligation to help rid this pilot group of ALPA. Prater, AAA, all of them.

WD, you don't know what I know, and I don't have the time to tell you. On another thread, Crzipilot and Fr8master detail some of what has happened to ALPA's "democratic" process.

If you like ALPA, I'm sorry for you. If you like the Nic and it's ironclad like you all say, then I'm happy for you. You'll win big in the end, because there is some fantastic seniority for the vast majority of West pilots. If you're going to rant and rave and dispute that point again, then we are done. Every time you guys try to make the Nic look bad for the West you look like @$$holes.

In the end, I believe the Nic will be viewed as a bad thing for everyone, because it, along with ALPA's deplorable handling of the situation, is going to cost us all a tremendous amount.

I want you to take what I say to you in whatever way allows you to understand it! I know you think that the west won something here but for the life of me I can't see what it is. I mean I move backwards in realitive position as a result not forward. If in your world that makes me and AHOLE then I guess I'm one then.

Arbitration should be a last resort. Those you hold in such high regard (C41 REPS) are the reason we went to arbitration. WE NEVER WANTED THAT but given the position of the east mec what choice did we have?? So you think now the answer is to attempt to force FK us with usapa and it's primary goal of DOH and we on the west will just lie down and take dik?? No my friend we would much rather see the whole place go out of business then to allow that.

The people in PHX and LAS for the most part all live in the west. There are just over two hundred that live east of the mississippi and twice that number of east folk that live out here. The thing would almost be a wash. I could hold an east capt spot today if the list was implimented but I would rather cut my testicles off then to commute transcon losing a day each way of my precious home time, HELL NO!!!!!

You are correct we will all lose soon as a result of all that's happened but keep in mind one thing. ALPA is not the organization as ALPA is the reps that you elected and refused to get rid of!! The RC4 was and is your problem, they voted not ALPA national, ALPA national had no vote but you did! how did you use that vote???

WD.

 

[PositiveRate]

The Nicolau is not bad for America West pilots. Basically everyone ended up where they started before the merger +/- a few % points, with larger moves down for our top guys due to the top 517 being East pilots. Everyone kept what they brought to the table - a big mantra for some of your USAPA buddies. It's fair and that's why it was issued as is, agreed to by the panel, ALPA and accepted by the company. Legally, it's a done deal. It's not going to change and you need to get that through your head.

BeCareful - you should watch video #7 of the USAPA PHX visit where someone in your position took a different path - Karen B. was very right - your old job is in the Mohave desert along with hers. Those airplanes are there because of gross mismanagement of your company. The ALPA wrongs you seem so insenced by are like a crosswind on an off runway landing. They are a side story that has more to do with unchecked/unchallenged apathy in many pilot groups (including yours and mine) and a simple lack of leverage in the industry since 2001. She saw the writing on the wall, and came to a growing carrier and is now suffering entirely because of this merger. She brought something to the merger - a job. If someone furloughed with 15 years a service didn't see it was over at US Airways and now feels wronged by the list - that is not her (or my) burden to bear. You will hear her concede, though, she has great sympathy for the '86-'88 hires who spent an entire career on the bottom and I believe that would CERTAINLY be an area of compromise in the future. We don't hate you guys, we hate that you think you can just throw us under the table to share in the misery....that was a critical underestimation of our pilot group.

On the flip side, the Nicolau is bad for us in that it's just one more representation of our arranged marriage to you guys. Although it is the result of a sanctioned, binding and mutually agreed to process, it is also a symbol of the total stagnation forced upon the West since day 1 of the merger. We have patiently played the game, but are patient no longer.

A lot of your gripes with ALPA are valid, but I don't buy your argument that that's why to vote for USAPA. USAPA is an unveiled attempt to re-arrange a seniority list by using a majority vote to piss away what little career protections myself and many others have left for limited and legally questionable gain. The change you desire is and always has been available within the ALPA structure. The wrongs you see are largely a result of years of APATHY at the local level, horrible business environments/leaders, and ALPA national having too many hands in too many pots. All of this can be changed within the ALPA structure - in fact, if the USAPA hard-core types ran for office, you might indeed see radical and positive change on your side without years of lawsuits, low pay, assesments and general workplace strife.

That leads me to strongly believe that if you support USAPA you want that strife, delay and separation because it suits your agenda and that losing every protection and advantage ALPA can provide is less important to you than ensuring AWA pilots become furlough protection for you and yours. That's not going to happen, but your vote may indeed allow you to see how inept and full of empty promises your USAPA leaders are. It will make our continued employment with this company a going concern.

If you think Doug is just going to shred the old list, you're smoking the good stuff - that would be a legal nightmare for him. In the past, he made some very important missteps by appeasing to the loudest voice to keep the peace...as a result he flamed the fires. I do not believe you will see him ever do that again....see his latest comments in the press RE the impending liquidation of the old US Airways just before the merger and how it saved every one of the 30,000 jobs out East that were on the chopping block.

The only way out of this is together - that's it...that's the only solution. Before the award, you got a brief glimpse of what cross country unity and leverage might look like and it CAN produce results. USAPA will absolutely cement our divisions, while ALPA has the resources and finally the motivation to produce the compromises to make this happen. The only positive that may come from a failed USAPA drive is that now both groups are awakened and motivated to produce change. Hopefully that will spell an end to the stalemate when negotiations resume.

 

[Flybywire44]

I get the impression that only AWA pilots post here.

US Air guys are by and large too old to use the Internet or read this fluff.

 

[PositiveRate]

AWA pilots and furloughed/bitter East pilots and/or junior midatlantic pilots.

In another thread I asked for some of the mysterious missing majority to post, but nothing yet.

Yes, posting here is probably pissing into the wind, but I do believe the possibility that there is a significant portion of the East that is entirely reasonable, wants a raise sooner than later and just wants to move on. I've personally encountered more than a few of these types on jumpseats. That group may indeed vote ALPA even if they submitted a card to make a statement.

We'll see.

 

[BeCareful!]

I want you to take what I say to you in whatever way allows you to understand it! I know you think that the west won something here but for the life of me I can't see what it is. I mean I move backwards in realitive position as a result not forward.

WD, for the most part, you communicate in divisive, condescending tones which alienate people. It's a style we are all familiar with, as many East ALPA reps communicate this way, too. If "for the life of you" you cannot see the windfall that puts a 2004 newhire ahead of a continuously employed 1987 hire, then you are beyond all hope, and decidedly anti-labor.

Arbitration should be a last resort. Those you hold in such high regard (C41 REPS) are the reason we went to arbitration.]

Here's another example of how you communicate. I never said I held PHL reps in high regard. I, in fact, see significant problems in the way they represented the group, the way they communicate, and in the battles they choose to wage. The only thing I said about them was that they were in line with what the majority wanted in this case. You took that and have been saying I'm a PHL disciple for days now. Drop that, please.

So you think now the answer is to attempt to force FK us with usapa and it's primary goal of DOH and we on the west will just lie down and take dik?? No my friend we would much rather see the whole place go out of business then to allow that.

Oh for God's sake make up your mind! The Nic was bad for you?? Well, then maybe what happens next will be good for you. And what's this about you'd rather see US go out of business than to be junior? OK, so maybe that's how a bunch of us feel out here. See, we share that sentiment at least, so what's the problem? I'll tell you what it is: ALPA and its F'uked up merger "policy" that was rewritten to appease a UAL pilot group that doesn't even recognize itself from when this all was rearranged

The people in PHX and LAS for the most part all live in the west. There are just over two hundred that live east of the mississippi and twice that number of east folk that live out here. The thing would almost be a wash. I could hold an east capt spot today if the list was implimented but I would rather cut my testicles off then to commute transcon losing a day each way of my precious home time, HELL NO!!!!!

Fine then, why didn't you and your mighty democratic union agree to a fence? If you ain't coming here, and the rest of your pilots aren't coming here, then PUT IT IN WRITING AND LETS GET ON WITH LIFE.

Oh yeah.....I just remembered.....it's ALPA we are dealing with, which is why we are where we are. Funny that vetrider keeps saying the East walked out on JNC but fails to mention that you guys walked out on the special lockdown meeting in Colorado. Dude, I am so sick of ALPA blowhards that do NOTHING!

23 days.

As the FPL get deposited.....so are the days of our lives.

 

[regionaltard]

Fine then, why didn't you and your mighty democratic union agree to a fence?

I think that a far better question is why your leadership didn't negotiate for one at the appropriate time.

 

[Green]

Fine then, why didn't you and your mighty democratic union agree to a fence? If you ain't coming here, and the rest of your pilots aren't coming here, then PUT IT IN WRITING AND LETS GET ON WITH LIFE

We won't agree to fences for the simple reason that nobody knows what the future holds. I think most West pilots would love to undo this merger but the fact remains that we are now tied together and the focus seems to be back east. If we fence ourselves out of the majority of the operation and Parker decides to downside the west we would be left with coming in on the bottom of the East bases. That's not going to happen.