No FMS

[PCL_128]

AA717 driver, how would you tune nav aids in the 717 without an fms?

Exactly. Some airplanes just aren't designed to be flown without the FMS. You can't dispatch a 717 without the FMS.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Yes you are I'm afraid, some aircraft (apparently not a Gulfstream) need the FMS to be operational.

If FMS (or both FMS's) is required for dispatch, then it couldn't be MEL'd. I think the original question is asking whether any of the major 121 outfits allow dispatch with an MEL'd FMS. Remember, an operator can always be more restrictive than the Master MEL.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

deleted. Someone else replied the same thoughts.

 

[Say Again Over]

No FMS in the question could be interpreted to mean both, one can obviously be MEL'd under certain circumstances on the scarebus.

 

[STL717]

AA717 driver, how would you tune nav aids in the 717 without an fms?

Standby Nav Rad

 

[NuGuy]

AA717, Actualy I don't think it's frightening, I think it's professional. Flying in high density airspace with ATC constantly changing your arrival and then your runway transition off of the arrival makes for lots of busy work on the arrival below 18000.

LOL, please tell me this is a joke.

One transition to the other is SOOO complex:

1) Read chart
2) Tune VOR/dial radial
3) Intercept, fly needle

Switches runways:

1) Tune new LOC frequency
2) Brief
3) Check QRM/Landing speed card to double check landing performance.

What the heck do they teach these days? Seems like without the FMS it's a lot easier. Unless you can't read a chart, keep track of where you are, or figure a descent in your head.

Nu

 

[Flynfish]

Standby Nav Rad

How do you get to Standby NAV/RAD without an FMS?

 

[STL717]

How do you get to Standby NAV/RAD without an FMS?

Press the MEMU botton on the MCDU
Press 1R and your in STANDBY NAV RAD
You can enter a VOR Freq and course and an ILS freq and course.

You don't need FMS only one MCDU.

When both FMS fail you have STANDBY NAV RAD as a backup to get to your destination.

I had to check the manual as it has been awhile since I've been on this plane.

 

[AA717driver]

Flynfish--Yeah, what STL717 said!

On the 767/757 you don't need an FMS to tune the radios. On the -80, you don't need it. On the Gulfstream, you could tune either way--knobs or FMS.

Someone mentioned they would refuse the airplane regardless of the MEL. I'm making fun of them. TC

 

[DTW320]

You guys ever fly round dials?

This thread really is showing who the "unprofessional" pilots are. They're the ones who can't think for themselves and won't leave the house without their passifier.

Gup

Is that some fancy pass travel benny you guys have at SW? For a minute I thought you meant a pacifier, like a baby's, but I figure a passifier must be some pass riding enhancement. You guys get all the good stuff:crying:.

Just kidding. Happy Easter!

 

[DrewBlows]

Do you get paid more if you accept an aircraft without an FMS?

 

[JAM-BRO]

We do it daily at NWA on the DC9.

AA717, Actualy I don't think it's frightening, I think it's professional. Flying in high density airspace with ATC constantly changing your arrival and then your runway transition off of the arrival makes for lots of busy work on the arrival below 18000.

 

[airbaker]

I used to go into SAN on the Beret 4 (ie multiple speed and altitude restrictions based off of VOR courses) all the time in a Madog doing 320kt descents with round dials; no big deal.

If anything I had way better SA because I was always on top of my 3:1 calculations and frequency/course switching.

Flying a fully automated Airbus like I do now is like flying with a lobotomy...

Seriously, what a bunch of pansies. What would the old-timers (you know the one's that had to do stellar navigation across the Atlantic) think of us??!

 

[canadflyau]

As a previous DC-8 pilot and current legacy 737 pilot, I do not think we can go with both FMS mel. We do not even carry 1.3-1.5 buffet charts anymore, let alone all the performance/apg charts. So I am not sure if we could, as all that data is kept via FMS. Maybe with a whole lot of supplemental data onboard the aircraft we could. Then again, I don't remeber our training ever covering any alternate flight planning methods besides programming. I'll check the MEL out next time I fly.

Not a needle, or VOR-VOR, flying problem at all. (However I miss those days!)

I used to jumpseat on the NWA-9s, I thought they had FMS.

 

[PCL_128]

Standby Nav Rad

That's only meant for in-flight failures to get you to your destination or diversion airport. You can't dispatch like that.