Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

No FMS

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
A few years ago they used to be MEL-able, however it was up to the discretion of the captain as to whether they would take the aircraft. I saw guys go both ways with it. I always took the "fly it like a 727" attitude, but some people weren't comfortable (at least that's what they said) flying without it.
 
This is frightening. Am I missing something? Someone is refusing to fly an airplane unless the FMS works?

Use your maps and the info from the performance pages.

Am I missing something? TC
 
AA717, Actualy I don't think it's frightening, I think it's professional. Flying in high density airspace with ATC constantly changing your arrival and then your runway transition off of the arrival makes for lots of busy work on the arrival below 18000.
 
Last edited:
Wow..
Watch out for those unprofessionals that fly in busy airspace without an FMC.

When my FMC quits, i just prefer to pull over into the breakdown lane and let the professionals go by.

I just can't seem to keep the flares level at 18,000 ft while I wait for AAA.

Take it as good practice with an FMC inop. You never know when you will not have it available. Its a nice tool, but the airplane still flies without it.

I flew the CRJ awhile back, it has a nice green needles system. Work as a crew and get er done!
 
Carpenter - "Sorry I can't fix your roof today my airnailer is jammed"

Homeowner - "Don't you have a hammer?"

Carpenter - "yah, but with the way the wind is blowin today, I don't think I throw a hammer too well, it has been awhile. I better be more professional and wait for my airnailer to get repaired"

Homeowner - "My roof will be leaking by then, sorry, I am calling someone else"
 
You guys ever fly round dials?

This thread really is showing who the "unprofessional" pilots are. They're the ones who can't think for themselves and won't leave the house without their passifier.

Gup
 
You guys are so funny. I've flown many airplanes with a busted FMS. It's becoming a regular deal. And I've never turned down flying without one. I just wanted to know if it was different at the legacy carriers. I'm glad there are so many heros out there. Give yourself a big pat on the back side.
 
Watch out for the DC9 drivers that fly without their FMS's all the time. They're Crazy!! ;)
 
God help us if the autopilot fails too.
 
Then this is really a maintenance issue then if you have alot of them. Maybe cnn would like to know that 1% of your airplane and 4% of your fleet is MEL'd. Would love to see the spin CNN could make with if the passengers found out the pilots were flying with an inop navigational computer. How could the pilots actually know where they are going without this computer? Then everytime a passenger boards your airline they ask if you are going to get lost today or is your navigational computer working?

Gotta love the media. There are time limits on MEL's but a great MX department will understand it is extra work for us pilots with inop equipment and get the problem fixed well before timelimit. LUV our MX guys!
 
Flynfish said:
AA717 driver, how would you tune nav aids in the 717 without an fms?
Click to expand...
Exactly. Some airplanes just aren't designed to be flown without the FMS. You can't dispatch a 717 without the FMS.
 
Say Again Over said:
Yes you are I'm afraid, some aircraft (apparently not a Gulfstream) need the FMS to be operational.
Click to expand...

If FMS (or both FMS's) is required for dispatch, then it couldn't be MEL'd. I think the original question is asking whether any of the major 121 outfits allow dispatch with an MEL'd FMS. Remember, an operator can always be more restrictive than the Master MEL.
 
No FMS in the question could be interpreted to mean both, one can obviously be MEL'd under certain circumstances on the scarebus.
 
SkyWstman said:
AA717, Actualy I don't think it's frightening, I think it's professional. Flying in high density airspace with ATC constantly changing your arrival and then your runway transition off of the arrival makes for lots of busy work on the arrival below 18000.
Click to expand...

LOL, please tell me this is a joke.

One transition to the other is SOOO complex:

1) Read chart
2) Tune VOR/dial radial
3) Intercept, fly needle

Switches runways:

1) Tune new LOC frequency
2) Brief
3) Check QRM/Landing speed card to double check landing performance.

What the heck do they teach these days? Seems like without the FMS it's a lot easier. Unless you can't read a chart, keep track of where you are, or figure a descent in your head.

Nu
 
Flynfish said:
How do you get to Standby NAV/RAD without an FMS?
Click to expand...

Press the MEMU botton on the MCDU
Press 1R and your in STANDBY NAV RAD
You can enter a VOR Freq and course and an ILS freq and course.

You don't need FMS only one MCDU.

When both FMS fail you have STANDBY NAV RAD as a backup to get to your destination.

I had to check the manual as it has been awhile since I've been on this plane.:cool:
 
Flynfish--Yeah, what STL717 said!

On the 767/757 you don't need an FMS to tune the radios. On the -80, you don't need it. On the Gulfstream, you could tune either way--knobs or FMS.

Someone mentioned they would refuse the airplane regardless of the MEL. I'm making fun of them. :p TC
 
GuppyWN said:
You guys ever fly round dials?

This thread really is showing who the "unprofessional" pilots are. They're the ones who can't think for themselves and won't leave the house without their passifier.

Gup
Click to expand...
Is that some fancy pass travel benny you guys have at SW? For a minute I thought you meant a pacifier, like a baby's, but I figure a passifier must be some pass riding enhancement. You guys get all the good stuff:crying:.

Just kidding. Happy Easter!:D
 
We do it daily at NWA on the DC9.


SkyWstman said:
AA717, Actualy I don't think it's frightening, I think it's professional. Flying in high density airspace with ATC constantly changing your arrival and then your runway transition off of the arrival makes for lots of busy work on the arrival below 18000.
Click to expand...
 
I used to go into SAN on the Beret 4 (ie multiple speed and altitude restrictions based off of VOR courses) all the time in a Madog doing 320kt descents with round dials; no big deal.

If anything I had way better SA because I was always on top of my 3:1 calculations and frequency/course switching.

Flying a fully automated Airbus like I do now is like flying with a lobotomy...

Seriously, what a bunch of pansies. What would the old-timers (you know the one's that had to do stellar navigation across the Atlantic) think of us??!
 
As a previous DC-8 pilot and current legacy 737 pilot, I do not think we can go with both FMS mel. We do not even carry 1.3-1.5 buffet charts anymore, let alone all the performance/apg charts. So I am not sure if we could, as all that data is kept via FMS. Maybe with a whole lot of supplemental data onboard the aircraft we could. Then again, I don't remeber our training ever covering any alternate flight planning methods besides programming. I'll check the MEL out next time I fly.

Not a needle, or VOR-VOR, flying problem at all. (However I miss those days!)

I used to jumpseat on the NWA-9s, I thought they had FMS.
 
STL717 said:
Standby Nav Rad
Click to expand...
That's only meant for in-flight failures to get you to your destination or diversion airport. You can't dispatch like that.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom