Great Lakes Info

[walangtakot]

Hello,
I was just doing some research about great lakes. I know they don't make much but I do like the pretty quick upgrade times. I am having the struggle with quicker upgrades and probably less pay vs higher pay but less flight time but possibly better QOL with other regionals. I would just love to talk to some current GL pilots or people who have worked there and find out about management and flying the Beech 1900 and their training contract. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Trogdor]

You don't want to work here, trust me.

 

[CX880]

Really good experience but value of 1900 time is not what it used to be, jet or heavier prop is the way to go. I'd be surprised if the beech will be used as an airliner much longer anyways.

 

[ePilot22]

Try this link: http://www.readytocopy.com/

Unofficial Great Lakes Pilot Forum.








eP.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Really good experience but value of 1900 time is not what it used to be, jet or heavier prop is the way to go. I'd be surprised if the beech will be used as an airliner much longer anyways.

When it comes to attracting prospective employers, I agree, it's not "worth" what it used to be.

However, I'd rather have a pilot with 2000 hours of Beech1900 time sitting beside me than some wonder boy with 2000 hours of rj time.

 

[cale42]

If you have viable options beyond GL consider them seriously.

I walked away from an awarded upgrade in the 1900 because I was watching too many of our captains get turned down elsewhere. I did see 1900 guys make it to Airtran, Allegiant, and Midwest, but also guys turned down at Delta, Southwest, and Airtran. Large operators want to see, glass, FMS, automation, jet time, and >20K MTOW.

Its very hard to be competitive coming out of the Beech and in an environment where there are a number of operators where you can upgrade fairly quickly in a larger t-prop or a 37 or 50 seat jet, you would be better served to focus on that.. the 8 months you save on upgrade won't be worth it.

That all said.. the beech is a blast and what midnight flyer said will be true till the cows come home..

 

[Trogdor]

For the record, our captains are leaving for WN, DL, US, NW, FL, F9, Spirit, Allegiant, NetJets, Citation Shares, FlexJet, and other various corporate gigs. About the only place, it seems, that a Lakes CA can't get hired at is Continental.

 

[T-prop]

According to some of these pictures, at Lakes you will learn two things. How to fly and how to party.

However, you won't earn much...

http://pictures.readytocopy.com/index.php

Their annual Halloween parties are quite legendary.

Some of these pictures go back to 1990, all recently posted by alumni, more and more get added every day.

 

[Cardinal]

Really good experience but value of 1900 time is not what it used to be, jet or heavier prop is the way to go. I'd be surprised if the beech will be used as an airliner much longer anyways.

I managed 4 different job offers at various jet operators on the basis of my Lakes experience. At the moment only two airlines hold an institutional bias against 1900 drivers: UA (wants jet time) and CO (doesn't play well with Lakers). Beyond that the experience will launch you as far as your connections, abilities, and fortune will take you. And add to Trogdor's list FedEx (when the window was open) and Alaska. Most legacies, and most LCCs are happy to hire a Laker, I don't know what else one could ask for.

That aside, it's a single person's airline. If you have a wife and kids, you, they, and your coworkers will all be miserable, so just don't bother.

 

[Crash Pad]

Used to work at Lakes. Easily the most fun I ever had in a flying job. You also learn how to fly. No autopilot in the mountains with an FO that has 200 hours. Good experience if you have balls (in short supply in aviation these days)

The downside:
The pay sucks. The contract sucks. You can't make it a career if hiring stops.

Bottom line: If you read Flight Info for a while you will realise that a company like ASA has a solid contract and good pay... They are also the most miserable pilots on the planet. So do you want a good contract or a good time?

Note: I went to ASA after a two year stretch at Lakes. The Captains I knew at Lakes now work at AirTran, Southwest, Delta, NetJets, Citation Shares... I'm short some PIC and still at ASA... Food for thought.

 

[Capt10Matt]

While I'm sure the whole pay, QOL, and everything else pretty much sucks. I had a buddy who stayed there for a couple years and is now working at Frontier...good opportunity if you can afford the pay.

Does it make anyone else sick to the stomach when you have to "afford" a job.

 

[CX880]

I managed 4 different job offers at various jet operators on the basis of my Lakes experience. At the moment only two airlines hold an institutional bias against 1900 drivers: UA (wants jet time) and CO (doesn't play well with Lakers). Beyond that the experience will launch you as far as your connections, abilities, and fortune will take you. And add to Trogdor's list FedEx (when the window was open) and Alaska. Most legacies, and most LCCs are happy to hire a Laker, I don't know what else one could ask for.

That aside, it's a single person's airline. If you have a wife and kids, you, they, and your coworkers will all be miserable, so just don't bother.

OK if you're GFs sister's best friend's husband is the son of a Fedex regional chief pilot then you might have a chance with just 1000 hours 1900 PIC time but too many times did I hear from CAs that were turned down by top tier airlines because of no Jet experience. Who knows as you say it might have to do with an airline's particular dislike with an operator, I wasn't at Lakes.

 

[BEfly]

OK if you're GFs sister's best friend's husband is the son of a Fedex regional chief pilot then you might have a chance with just 1000 hours 1900 PIC time but too many times did I hear from CAs that were turned down by top tier airlines because of no Jet experience. Who knows as you say it might have to do with an airline's particular dislike with an operator, I wasn't at Lakes.

Maybe. But in my experience, turbine is turbine. 135 or 121. I've never known anybody turned down with not enough "jet" time. Again. Just my experience. Either way, Great lakes sucks. I inteviewed there @ 5 years ago and they were proud to offer $12.50/ hour with no promises. I said no thanks. I like some of their routes though, good flying.

 

[BEfly]

Also.... I understand Great Lakes may suffer the same fate as Big Sky.

 

[T-prop]

Also.... I understand Great Lakes may suffer the same fate as Big Sky.

I don't think so, not yet. By default Lakes is quickly becoming the only 1900 operator living off of EAS.

Commutair, Air Midwest, Big Sky, Midwest Connect, Corporate Air, Boston-Maine etc. have or are in the process of shutting down their 1900/EAS business.

There are a lot of cities that qualify for and want EAS service, and Lakes now has much less competition and a much larger market.

(2002ish) when I was a lineguy I had to call Phillips 66 before I fueled them. They got a few months (6 months+) behind on their fuel bill with their vendors... they still flew and survived.

Lakes is the infamous "cockroach" in the airline industry.

Besides, they have to survive just 2 years for a new-hire to get the 1000 TPIC anyway.

 

[Cardinal]

OK if you're GFs sister's best friend's husband is the son of a Fedex regional chief pilot then you might have a chance

LOL. Accurate, but it seemed like anybody, jet driver or not, needed similar connections to land that job. The 3 recs + meet and greet system guaranteed an incestuous group.

Too many times did I hear from CAs that were turned down by top tier airlines because of no Jet experience.

I was one of those CAs. But I can't present evidence as to why I and my bretheren got turned down, only hunches.

Yet I think for the new 121 pilot, it's far better to be eligible to get hired most places (with PIC under your belt) than have the jet time but be scorned nearly everywhere because of an inability to ever upgrade.

 

[Future Furlough]

Lakes is the infamous "cockroach" in the airline industry.

Besides, they have to survive just 2 years for a new-hire to get the 1000 TPIC anyway.

If the hiring music stops (as it looks like it might, what with age 65 and oil at a gazzillion bucks) it could be a whole lot longer than 2 years. As I always say, you're better off going a company that treats you well. That way, if you get stuck there, you get stuck with a good quality of life, as opposed to just getting stuck.

 

[Crossky]

Maybe. But in my experience, turbine is turbine. 135 or 121. I've never known anybody turned down with not enough "jet" time. Again. Just my experience. Either way, Great lakes sucks. I inteviewed there @ 5 years ago and they were proud to offer $12.50/ hour with no promises. I said no thanks. I like some of their routes though, good flying.

It's actually a whopping $15.30/hr, been that way since approx. 2000.

Most pilots leave Lakes to go fly an RJ, frac or corp/charter. A few do get the big jet, but it's a fact a GLA CA is less attractive to a major/LCC than a Jet CA.

I know I had fun there.

 

[Guitar Guy]

It's actually a whopping $15.30/hr, been that way since approx. 2000.

Didn't the contract back in 2005 (or 2006?) change that, albeit just a little bit? Still poverty-level wages.

I think you are right, Crossky, as there is some debate that my employer may start getting a little more picky on jet and/or glass/FMS time.

But if one can survive Lakes and the 1900D, that person will be a better pilot for the experience.

 

[Cardinal]

Most impatient pilots leave Lakes to go fly an RJ, frac or corp/charter.

A few do get the big jet, but it's a fact a GLA CA is less attractive to a few major/LCCs than a Jet CA.

Fixed it for you.