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The French are coming!!!

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Boeing got what is deserved

First, I am not in the military and have no expertise regarding refueling operations. Having said that, on the surface of things, it seems that EADS/NG simply offered a much better product than Boeing. I think the blame falls squarely on Boeing's shoulder for losing this deal. Besides, what product has Boeing defense designed and delivered in the last 20 years that has not been either bought through an acquisition or a rehash of an old, existing legacy airframe? Every new, white board product they have tried to design in the aircraft area has lost to its competitors. Boeing needs to get its sh*#% together when it comes to its defense division, particularly when it comes to aircraft development.

Secondly, EADS is not a French company. It is a multinational company. As far as I know the tail of the A330 is built in Spain, the wings in the U.K., the fuselage in Germany, engines are U.S and final assembly will be in the U.S, with major subsystems build and delivery by NG. So on the whole, this cannot be a bad thing for the American worker. In fact, while we might lose some aviation skills from the people in the 767 line, a whole new generation of skilled aviation workers will be trained in the south. Bad for the people on Boeing's 767 line? Absolutely, but the 767 has been a dying program for a lot of years now. I do feel bad for them.

Finally, why are people complaining that we are buying a foreign product for our military? Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't European countries been buying American military hardware worth many, many billions of dollars for a lot of years now? And why did they do it? Probably because the products they bought were superior to the home grown option. Shouldn't the men and woman serving in our military be given the same option?
 
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The real reason

The A330 won in the end because of the Air Force's inability to recapitalize their strategic airlift capability. The A330 can haul crap, oh and by the way, may pass gas every now and then - like the ten.

This is seemingly a great idea, until you study the need for AR. Bigger is not better. We don't have the infrastructure at many Tanker bases or FOBs to support the size of the A330 as a -135 replacement. A replacement for the ten, maybe, but not for the 530 kc-135s that are getting burned every day.

Oh, and to say that the 330 is a better platform than the 767 is asinine. Can anyone tell me the last time a 330 actually gave an offload of fuel?

The sound of crickets is deafening.
 
Define capability...

Correct me if I'm wrong (like I have to ask), but didn't we see something like this with the C-17 when the Starlizard was retired? It can carry more stuff, but half the stuff needs to go this way and the other half needs to go that way - we now need to have two different tails or find a void in the space-time continuum.

We started picking up the AE mission in the -135 about the time the 141s started going away and that's the reason that was given at the time. I will say that it was sourced through the deployed crew dog rumor mill and not through anything official.

Still, will we potentially see some of the same thing with one big tanker instead of two smaller ones?
 
Still, will we potentially see some of the same thing with one big tanker instead of two smaller ones?

My understanding is that both offers were for the same number of tankers - 179. Boeing, argued, however, that since the 330 took up more ramp space than the 767, it would be harder to deploy the same number of tankers. Boeing also made the argument that, while the 330 could carry more fuel, and do so more with lower operating costs "per gallon", it had cheaper operating costs "per boom".

Apparently, the evaluators didn't see those considerations as primary. You're in a much better position than I am to decide if that's correct.
 
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Can anyone tell me the last time a 330 actually gave an offload of fuel?

And until the KC-135 contract was let, a 707 hadn't either, so that argument goes out the window.

No USAF KC-767 has run a drop of JP down a boom either!

But for sure, Boeings past contract history, with the Government, had an impact on the decision. When senior management goes to jail over a business deal, thats not a good thing. A Government contract PCO is not going to hang his sierra over the fence over a multi billion dollar deal.
 
Who is running this country, a bunch of foreigners?

We let foreign investors take over our credit problems and then let them build our military jets for up to $100 billion. I'm I taking crazy pills or is this the end of the USA as we know it?

What is next???

Welcome to the "Global Economy". The next 20 years will be enlightening to say the least - may be a good thing for commerce and government but not the average Joe.
 
Who is running this country, a bunch of foreigners?

We let foreign investors take over our credit problems and then let them build our military jets for up to $100 billion. I'm I taking crazy pills or is this the end of the USA as we know it?

What is next???
It is not the first time that the US has bought a foreign airplane.. BaE Hawk, aka T-45, and the English Electic Canbera Bomber, aka B-57. The B-57 was actually built under license though and both were British products if that makes you feel better. I can't think of anything else off of the top of my head.
 
Of course the 330 is a better platform than the 767; it's a generation newer. Likewise the 777 and 787 are both better than the 330. Here's another twist: as several have said, one size doesn't fit all. Why wasn't the contract for multiple aircraft of different sizes, say 30 767s and 100 737s?
 
It is not the first time that the US has bought a foreign airplane.. BaE Hawk, aka T-45, and the English Electic Canbera Bomber, aka B-57. The B-57 was actually built under license though and both were British products if that makes you feel better. I can't think of anything else off of the top of my head.

Let us not forget the HAWKER Harrier GR-1. . . the original lawn dart. . .
 
Let us not forget the HAWKER Harrier GR-1. . . the original lawn dart. . .

OK, but at least it's British. I can take a British airplane. They have always been one of our best allies and have proven very grateful for what the U.S. has done for them. The French, on the other hand...
:puke:
 
OK, but at least it's British. I can take a British airplane. They have always been one of our best allies and have proven very grateful for what the U.S. has done for them. The French, on the other hand...
:puke:

I'm not fan of the french and would rather see the new tanker come from boeing (however I agree like some said that the french plane is better than boeing's 767 offering) but you guys seem to forget that without the help of the french we would have never won our independence in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution
 

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