More signs the ATR is going away.

[centralpilot]

The way they did it on the Brasilia was not to officially seat lock anyone, but rather, just not let anyone off (bypass). That covered all the FOs since FOs can be legally bypassed indefinitely, as long as they're paid the higher rate. Since Captains can't be bypassed, they awarded them positions, but never sent them to training. This eventually led to a grievance because they were sending people not on the Brasilia (jet FOs upgrading for example) to class before the Brasilia Captains holding an award. They are required to send everyone from a previous award before they send anyone from a later award.

ASA eventually settled, but it bought them the 3-6 months they needed to retire the airplane and still have pilots. "Fly now, grieve later" is a great thing if you're in management. Expect to see it happen again.

That explains it. However, I wonder if the new contract language regarding ATR FOs will allow them to do that. As I understand it, 10% of eligible FOs must be given their award and can't be bypassed. That being the case, we've seen that they are just delaying class dates for those awards. However, if they must send everyone on a previous award to class before they move to the later awards, wouldn't that logjam transition training?

 

[SPDBRD747400]

"More signs the ATR is going away."

Was there not a memo about this a couple months ago that spelled out there departure or did I just dream that up?

Q: Will the ATR fleet retire from ASA’s fleet in 2008?​

A: The ATRs are scheduled to start leaving our fleet in the fall of 2008 – like everything else, this
could change but right now it looks like the ATR will be phased out by the end of 2008.
Considering that we don’t currently have a plan to replace the ATR with new aircraft, it is up to us
to win new work. This may sound like a broken record but the fact is that we must prove that we
are the best choice for new work. That means that in the months to come we must prove to our
partners and the world, through our performance and efficiencies, that we are a quality carrier​

and that we are the only logical choice.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Q: Will the ATR fleet retire from ASA’s fleet in 2008?​

A: The ATRs are scheduled to start leaving our fleet in the fall of 2008 – like everything else, this
could change but right now it looks like the ATR will be phased out by the end of 2008.
Considering that we don’t currently have a plan to replace the ATR with new aircraft, it is up to us
to win new work. This may sound like a broken record but the fact is that we must prove that we
are the best choice for new work. That means that in the months to come we must prove to our
partners and the world, through our performance and efficiencies, that we are a quality carrier​

and that we are the only logical choice.

What a crap answer. Once again, management shifting their responsibility to find growth to us, the pilots, and setting us up to be the excuse for their failure to perform this task. Did this come from Scott Hall?

 

[SPDBRD747400]

What a crap answer. Once again, management shifting their responsibility to find growth to us, the pilots, and setting us up to be the excuse for their failure to perform this task. Did this come from Scott Hall?

Nope this one was from Brad H. Q&A on OurASA.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Nope this one was from Brad H. Q&A on OurASA.

That's disappointing. This is the first time I've heard Brad Holt spewing such propaganda. His stock just went down.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Q: Will the ATR fleet retire from ASA’s fleet in 2008?​

A: The ATRs are scheduled to start leaving our fleet in the fall of 2008 – like everything else, this
could change but right now it looks like the ATR will be phased out by the end of 2008.
Considering that we don’t currently have a plan to replace the ATR with new aircraft, it is up to us
to win new work. This may sound like a broken record but the fact is that we must prove that we
are the best choice for new work. That means that in the months to come we must prove to our
partners and the world, through our performance and efficiencies, that we are a quality carrier​

and that we are the only logical choice.

and if they don't we will execute Mountain Meadows Massacre plan 3B(f) part1 on them, we already sued them for $25,000,000 over our flight cancellations - so they better not screw with us on future contract awards! With 11 Delta Connection and NorthWest Airlink carriers and too much contracted capacity they'll see that we are the only logical choice.

 

[John Pennekamp]

and we sued them for $25,000,000 over a contract dispute - well that proves something

"We"? I thought SkyWest Inc. sued Delta.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Potato, potAto...

I thought ASA flew what SkyWest signed contracts to provide.

Hey, I like the ATR's and wish there were more of them flown by ASA pilots. But the contracting arm of the SkyWest operation currently holds a switchblade.

Even if the suit has merit (which it might/might not) it is a dumb move in the current environment. The dispute is chump change, but could not be more poorly timed.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Potato, potAto...

I thought ASA flew what SkyWest signed contracts to provide.

Hey, I like the ATR's and wish there were more of them flown by ASA pilots. But the contracting arm of the SkyWest operation currently holds a switchblade.

Even if the suit has merit (which it might/might not) it is a dumb move in the current environment. The dispute is chump change, but could not be more poorly timed.

I really don't think the lawsuit is a big deal, and amounts to a hill of beans in terms of Delta awarding SkyWest Inc future flying.

SkyWest says Delta owes them $25m. Delta says they don't. A lawsuit or arbitration is the accepted way to handle such disputes. This is nothing more than a business contract dispute, and is a fairly standard way to dispose of one. I really don't see the bad blood so many people seem to think this will cause.

 

[propsarebest]

One thing to remember...

Brad H. has the WORST case of SJS that anyone has ever seen.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

That's disappointing. This is the first time I've heard Brad Holt spewing such propaganda. His stock just went down.

Can the truth be propaganda? The fact is folks, this is a business, and if we aren't competitive (financially and with on-time performance), we aren't going to be in business. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I really don't see the bad blood so many people seem to think this will cause.

Agreed that lawsuits should not be taken personally, but there was some pretty strong rhetoric coming from the GO before the lawsuit. I'm sure it did not smooth things over to take the fight out to the street.

 

[sweptback]

Can the truth be propaganda? The fact is folks, this is a business, and if we aren't competitive (financially and with on-time performance), we aren't going to be in business. Why is that so hard to understand?

Well, for one, pilots have very little control over the success (or lack thereof) of a given company.

 

[johnpeace]

Well, for one, pilots have very little control over the success (or lack thereof) of a given company.

Small or not, every team member has a contribution to make toward the overall success (or failure) of their team.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, for one, pilots have very little control over the success (or lack thereof) of a given company.

....then why didn't we get Horizon rates on the 700?....

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Well, for one, pilots have very little control over the success (or lack thereof) of a given company.

As was proven last fall, we have way more control than we give ourselves credit for. I don't think it is propaganda for our president to give a "Rah Team" speech. We may not have complete control, but he is right that if we aren't competitive we won't get business.

He didn't say that we were 100% responsible for the competitiveness...

 

[shamrock]

I don't think it is propaganda for our president to give a "Rah Team" speech.

I guess that's one way to look at the response, but I tend to agree with my esteemed colleague Pennekamp's interpretation:

Once again, management shifting their responsibility to find growth to us, the pilots, and setting us up to be the excuse for their failure to perform this task.

 

[JettBoii]

0 200 Cptn Vacancies for latest prelims
0 ATR Cptn Vacancies for latest prelims

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I guess that's one way to look at the response, but I tend to agree with my esteemed colleague Pennekamp's interpretation:

Any growth will come from our competitors, not from "new flying." Welcome to the age of cannibalism.

Every person in our company needs to do their part, even if it is a small part. I think that is all that Brad was saying. We must try to look like the best apple on the tree, because pretty soon Delta is going to start thinning the DCI carriers.

Why does everyone take such offense to a manager stating the facts? George and John are gone. We need to start working together, and drop the petty politics.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Any growth will come from our competitors, not from "new flying." Welcome to the age of cannibalism.

Every person in our company needs to do their part, even if it is a small part. I think that is all that Brad was saying. We must try to look like the best apple on the tree, because pretty soon Delta is going to start thinning the DCI carriers.

Why does everyone take such offense to a manager stating the facts? George and John are gone. We need to start working together, and drop the petty politics.

Spoken like someone with a cubicle in the GO.

This "y'all suck, clean it up or we're out of business" lecture is sooooooo last year. We're over it.

All of you in management need to do YOUR jobs and go beat the bushes to get us some flying. WE ARE doing our part. ASA's performance is better than ever and still improving. Now it's up to YOU GO RATS to hold Delta's feet to the fire to improve ground servicing and make truthful delay codes.

BUT STOP BLAMING THE F***ING PILOTS FOR ASA'S PROBLEMS!!!!!!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

....then why didn't we get Horizon rates on the 700?....

Um, because it's never wise to price yourself out of the game? Unwise to make yourself a target by topping the industry? The best job security is to be competitive?

Weren't these your lines during negotiations? Either you're fishing or have Alzheimer's.

 

[John Pennekamp]

0 200 Cptn Vacancies for latest prelims
0 ATR Cptn Vacancies for latest prelims

Yeah... what's up with that? I can't believe no -200 vacancies. Makes you wonder.

 

[Silent Partner]

Called BM about that. He informed me it was just an extra prelim. There will be another prelim out with 200 capt vacancies next month.

 

[CFI2766]

Well, for one, pilots have very little control over the success (or lack thereof) of a given company.

Disagree. The modicum of success that ASA currently has is due to pilots going above and beyond the call of duty. D-0 ring a bell? Distilled, D-0 is simply an articulation of the premise that pilots are responsible for the management of the ground servicing operation. Don't have a release? The pilot has to go get it. Don't have fuel? Catering? Cleaning? Passenger? The pilot is responsible for making sure these things happen.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Disagree. The modicum of success that ASA currently has is due to pilots going above and beyond the call of duty. D-0 ring a bell? Distilled, D-0 is simply an articulation of the premise that pilots are responsible for the management of the ground servicing operation. Don't have a release? The pilot has to go get it. Don't have fuel? Catering? Cleaning? Passenger? The pilot is responsible for making sure these things happen.

Which goes right back to my premise that management is shifting their responsibility for running a quality operation to us, the pilots... again.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Which goes right back to my premise that management is shifting their responsibility for running a quality operation to us, the pilots... again.

Looking at the front line operations, most, if not all pilots are Type A personalities who are goal or task oriented. It's easy for us to want to fix problems and make things run they way they should. Plus it doesn't hurt to tie some of our pay into our performance. Another incentive for us to fix mistakes when we see them.

How is the staffing on the ATR? I thought it was overstaffed, but there is 150% open time available now?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Disagree. The modicum of success that ASA currently has is due to pilots going above and beyond the call of duty. D-0 ring a bell? Distilled, D-0 is simply an articulation of the premise that pilots are responsible for the management of the ground servicing operation. Don't have a release? The pilot has to go get it. Don't have fuel? Catering? Cleaning? Passenger? The pilot is responsible for making sure these things happen.

I agree with you. Look at our performance numbers lately. Yes, D-0 helps alot, because it puts the responsibility on the pilots, and more importantly, takes it away from the gate agents.

Another correlation that hasn't gone unnoticed by myself is that the contract has been signed. What used to be "Do your job only" and "Make only one call" has been replaced by an attitude of "let's make this place right."

You may not agree with that attitude, but happy employees work harder. It may cost the company more when paychecks are compared, but an efficiently run operation will make that difference back and more eventually.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Looking at the front line operations, most, if not all pilots are Type A personalities who are goal or task oriented. It's easy for us to want to fix problems and make things run they way they should. Plus it doesn't hurt to tie some of our pay into our performance. Another incentive for us to fix mistakes when we see them.

Exactly. And they exploit that tendency to make us do their dirty work. More work for the same pay.

How is the staffing on the ATR? I thought it was overstaffed, but there is 150% open time available now?

I don't get that either. We're way overstaffed with 50 pilots per seat for 34 lines. In fact, I looked in AT7 CA open time and there's only one open trip during that period. I emailed that David Blodgett guy and asked him WTF. We'll see.

 

[ohplease!]

Exactly. And they exploit that tendency to make us do their dirty work. More work for the same pay.

If doing the "GO's dirty work" gets me to my overnight on time or early, gets me off work on the last day on time or early and gets me the LITTLE extra perf. bonus; sign me up.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Disagree. The modicum of success that ASA currently has is due to pilots going above and beyond the call of duty. D-0 ring a bell? Distilled, D-0 is simply an articulation of the premise that pilots are responsible for the management of the ground servicing operation. Don't have a release? The pilot has to go get it. Don't have fuel? Catering? Cleaning? Passenger? The pilot is responsible for making sure these things happen.

Yet another pilot with a head too big for himself. You ever happen to look in the ramp, FA or ops areas around the airport? Guess what? They have all those D-0 posters all over the place too!! Your sense of reality is a bit skewed.