Will DAL/NW Merge? Yay or Nay?

[Truckdriver]

I'm saying Yea. Very quiet with no more "leaks" coming out means that everyone has been pressured to shut up because the deal is happening. When you get lots of leaks you know it will be awhile, when it's nice and quiet something is going down. If the pilots have agreed on a joint labor contract the company can get most of the synergies they need and let us fight out the SLI over time. SLI doesn't matter to them, it's the labor contract which it sounds like the MEC's agreed on. My bet is that it goes through and we work on SLI over the next couple of years.

 

[nwaredtail]

Ratioed list. 2007 hires next to 1995 hires. As he said, a non-starter, sorry!

 

[On Your Six]

Nay...haven't heard any positive rumblings today

I think it would be a strong business combination if the two pilot groups could actually work together. You could argue that, excluding the current pilot mess at USAirways, the result is much stronger than an independent AWA or a liqidated USAirways.

By the way, the DOH remark made by PilotBob3 is a$$inine. I suppose he is aware of Delta's 2500 PICs who retired over the last few years. Clearly that would leave a very loppsided DOH list - wouldn't you agree? NWA pilots traded off pay and work rules to keep their pensions and a lot of that would be restored or improved upon for them in a merger scenario. They would BENEFIT from this merger from a salary and work rules perspective. DAL pilots would see no major improvement beyond additional equity if I understand the situation correctly - no salary or work rules improvement.

The benefit for both pilot groups would be a much stronger employer with more job security and more resources for continued growth. Sure, both could survive independently, but growth would be incremental and redundant. Delta would gradually expand into other parts of Asia and Northwest might add a few South American or additional European routes as aircraft became available. Neither would necessarily be considered the true market leader - and both would be more susceptible to economic fluctuations and domestic competitive threats. The combined airline could offer more compelling worldwide connections and one-stop shopping for huge multinationals looking for corporate accounts.

It might work out well - too bad the pilot groups can't seem to see the forrest through the trees...

 

[FDJ2]

What's not to like? Republic guys getting a widebody? Is an SLI that would allow a DAL pilot to keep his seat and relative seniority a deal breaker?

I think the bigger hang up will be the relationship amongst the NWA committee members than between the DAL and NWA MECs.

This entire concept of getting out in front of a merger appears to be an alien concept to some members of the NWA committees. The NWA pilots have a more divided group, MEC, and committee structure. Therefore they need more time to debate the pros and cons and reach a consensus, or at least get it out of their merger committee and in front of their full MEC for debate.

We'll see how it all turns out. There is no attempt to cram anything down. If the deal doesn't work either the entire concept of merging is rejected for the time being or we'll go down the traditional route of merging, with no bennies, no joint contract, no contractual improvements for the foreseeable future and probably end up in arbitration.

 

[Truckdriver]

Ratioed list. 2007 hires next to 1995 hires. As he said, a non-starter, sorry!

Date of hire means squat here. What matters is that you end up no better or worse off on the combined list. If you are at 80% on the NWA list now, you should end up at 80% on the combined list. Same goes for the Delta guys. I expect to be the same relative seniority on a combined list, nothing more, nothing less. What is so unfair about that???

 

[~~~^~~~]

There was at least a 7 year gap in hiring. The difference might not be as dramatic as it sounds.

If a 95 pilot holds a DC-9, or A320, slot now - how would being able to hold a 76ER, or 777 slot, on growth in 08 be harm?

 

[propdog]

Date of hire means squat here. What matters is that you end up no better or worse off on the combined list. If you are at 80% on the NWA list now, you should end up at 80% on the combined list. Same goes for the Delta guys. I expect to be the same relative seniority on a combined list, nothing more, nothing less. What is so unfair about that???

I agree. DOH just won't work because of the it is not fair for a Delta 777 CA to get kicked off his/her seat by a senior pilot from NWA. Some kind of a ratio integration seems to be the way to go...

 

[On Your Six]

Date of hire means squat here. What matters is that you end up no better or worse off on the combined list. If you are at 80% on the NWA list now, you should end up at 80% on the combined list. Same goes for the Delta guys. I expect to be the same relative seniority on a combined list, nothing more, nothing less. What is so unfair about that???

I think this would be absolutely fair. If you are in the bottom 5% of NWA, you shouldn't expect to be in the top 50% of the combined airline. You should expect to be in the bottom 5% of the combined airline. Age 65 has hurt everyone in the lower ranks - nobody is immune from slower career expectations...

 

[Cpt Oveur]

I agree. DOH just won't work because of the it is not fair for a Delta 777 CA to get kicked off his/her seat by a senior pilot from NWA. Some kind of a ratio integration seems to be the way to go...

I think on another thread they have already stated a clause will be in effect that says a NWA pilot can't bid the 777 for about 3 years, and similarly a DAL pilot can't bid the 744 for about 3 years. That will get interesting since NWA ordered the 787, and DAL the 777, two models that will share a common type rating.

Great that there is so much discussion on here. Anyone contact their union rep yet, or are you just hoping they're reading this too?

 

[tomgoodman]

The threat of arbitration

Keep in mind that management hints of calling off the merger could be a pressure tactic. They might proceed with a merger anyway, leaving the list to be settled later (probably by an arbitrator), which is the usual outcome. The possibility of imposed arbitration can be helpful at first, as each side hopes to reach a semi-acceptable deal rather than risk a horrible result from the arbitrator. But as arbitration becomes very probable, they dig in their heels, lest a generous "last offer" become a starting point for "splitting the difference". In addition, negotiators would rather have a bad settlement imposed than be on record as agreeing to one -- the arbitrator doesn't have to return to the cockpit and fly with angry colleagues.

 

[FDJ2]

Ratioed list. 2007 hires next to 1995 hires. As he said, a non-starter, sorry!

How is that a ratioed list?

Are you telling me that NWA hasn't hired since 1995?

I don't think anyone is proposing putting a 1995 hire who is about 25%-35% off the bottom of the NWA list next to a newhire that is 1% off the bottom of the DAL list.

 

[tiffanytaylor]

Other ?s too

For some reason I thought Pilots had to agree on seniority issues before a deal could go down legally, but from reading the posts I see that's not the case. Plus there's the f/a seniority issues too. I'm a f/a for Comair and have no idea what would happen with seniority integration in the event of a merger...if they merge us with another DCI or NW carrier? Would there be discussions next with f/as? To be honest, I wonder if Comair will be relocated to DTW or sold, still be part of Delta/NW, or become non-existent? There are so many questions.

Thank you for your input!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Ratio is the only way that it will go. The new hires at DAL that were in the first few classes are closing in on the top 90%.
I think the truly fair way is a ratio for everyone hired before 9/11 and straight DOH for us newbies.

 

[Noserider76]

I think the bigger hang up will be the relationship amongst the NWA committee members than between the DAL and NWA MECs.

This entire concept of getting out in front of a merger appears to be an alien concept to some members of the NWA committees. The NWA pilots have a more divided group, MEC, and committee structure. Therefore they need more time to debate the pros and cons and reach a consensus, or at least get it out of their merger committee and in front of their full MEC for debate.

That's what I've heard as well. Almost total disfunction from the other side. Didn't everyone see this coming for the last two years? Also looks like a windfall contract improvement for NW. Not so much for us, I'm afraid. I'd like to see our guys push back from the table (they may already have).

I hope the deal dies but I think management will go ahead without the pilots and we'll have what we have now for the next 3 years until the arbitrator makes his decision. No benefits from the merger for anyone. Still, you have to give Lee and Co. credit for thinking outside the box and trying to get both pilots groups to benefit from a merger that no pilot group had been able to do previously.

 

[Sedona16]

That's what I've heard as well. Almost total disfunction from the other side. Didn't everyone see this coming for the last two years? Also looks like a windfall contract improvement for NW. Not so much for us, I'm afraid. I'd like to see our guys push back from the table (they may already have).

I hope the deal dies but I think management will go ahead without the pilots and we'll have what we have now for the next 3 years until the arbitrator makes his decision. No benefits from the merger for anyone. Still, you have to give Lee and Co. credit for thinking outside the box and trying to get both pilots groups to benefit from a merger that no pilot group had been able to do previously.

What do you think this merger does to the Delta pilots plans to push wages up in 2009 when the contract come up for renegotiation? Would the bump in NWA pilots pay have already used the "raise money" so to speak? I just keep wondering how this is a good deal for Delta pilots unless the top Northwest guys punch out immediately.