Jumpseat war has begun

[Fast43]

Looks like one of the East USAIR pilots was just denied the J/S on a WEST Aircraft from SFO to CLT. (Which is an original EAST route). Looks like he got denied because he was wearing a USAPA lanyard. Next time I do SEA LAS or LAS SAN or PHX SFO or PHX SLC etc. I will not let a WEST Pilot on the J/S until this is resolved. And what I am hearing , this will be done by many AAA captains.

Let the games begin.

Marty

Hey Marty,

Good idea that way no one can accuse you of not waiting for this to be handled through proper channels, ie Profesional Standards.

What a fine display of the Superior Professionalism from out east we always hear about.

Fast

 

[JoeMerchant]

Kumbaya koolaid? Nope, not from me. The whiny little uSAPa d0uche got exactly what he deserved. I wouldn't let him ride, either.

I find those silly ALPA lanyards offensive......should I kick them off the jumpseat? I find you offensive......should I kick you off the jumpseat?....

My personal opinion is to let you ALPA cheerleaders ride and to engage you in conversation.....maybe we can learn something about each other's position......However if you want to start a jumpseat war.....you better be ready for the ramifications........Seems kinda silly....but if you guys are going to kick people off who don't like ALPA, maybe we should respond in kind......

Let us know.........

 

[PCL_128]

I find those silly ALPA lanyards offensive......should I kick them off the jumpseat? I find you offensive......should I kick you off the jumpseat?....

Please do. I wouldn't want to ask a favor of someone that's so anti-union. I proudly wear my union pin. If that offends you, then feel free to kick me off your jumpseat. I'll thank you for your time and go to the next flight. Your jumpseat is your jumpseat, and I would never try to tell you what you should do with it. You have absolute control over it. Period.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Please do. I wouldn't want to ask a favor of someone that's so anti-union. I proudly wear my union pin. If that offends you, then feel free to kick me off your jumpseat. I'll thank you for your time and go to the next flight. Your jumpseat is your jumpseat, and I would never try to tell you what you should do with it. You have absolute control over it. Period.

My inclination is to let you ride and discuss the issues.....some of you ALPA zealots would rather have a jumpseat war however......Nobody will win with that, but hey if that's what you guys want......that's fine.......

By the way.....we aren't "anti-union".....we are "anti-ALPA"....there is a difference......ALPA isn't a union.....it is a loose association of waring factions that can't wait to screw each other while claiming they are "brothers"......

 

[PCL_128]

My inclination is to let you ride and discuss the issues

I have no desire to be stuck in a confined space with you and listen to you drone on and on about your paranoid delusions. I'd rather you just deny me the jumpseat. Thankfully I know your real name, so I'll just turn and walk the other direction if you're the Captain on any flight I try to jumpseat on.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I have no desire to be stuck in a confined space with you and listen to you drone on and on about your paranoid delusions. I'd rather you just deny me the jumpseat. Thankfully I know your real name, so I'll just turn and walk the other direction if you're the Captain on any flight I try to jumpseat on.

....of course you don't commute anymore.....But only an idiot would wait for the next flight rather than engage the opposition in a debate.....I am a part-time commuter and I would rather sit on your jumpseat and listen to you than wait for the next flight....You are showing your true colors and that of ALPA.....You can't win in the battlefield of ideas, so you would rather resort to a juvenile jumpseat war.....USAPA would be a union....but since it isn't ALPA, you don't like them.....This isn't a union/non union issue....it is an ALPA issue....If it isn't ALPA, you don't accept it.....

ALPA is a failure and the ALPA cheerleaders like you and Rez aren't helping any......

 

[abefly]

....of course you don't commute anymore.....But only an idiot would wait for the next flight rather than engage the opposition in a debate.....I am a part-time commuter and I would rather sit on your jumpseat and listen to you than wait for the next flight....You are showing your true colors and that of ALPA.....You can't win in the battlefield of ideas, so you would rather resort to a juvenile jumpseat war.....USAPA would be a union....but since it isn't ALPA, you don't like them.....This isn't a union/non union issue....it is an ALPA issue....If it isn't ALPA, you don't accept it.....

ALPA is a failure and the ALPA cheerleaders like you and Rez aren't helping any......

So how is USAPA a "Union" when 40 percent of the pilot group wont be paying dues? It is not a Union...It is an attempt, and I stress attempe, to Screw the AWA pilots. All that will win in the endis management. We need to negotiate a contract and move on. Then get a new Union. When all pilots East and West are on Board. Otherwise this place will never work out. If you think USAPA is going to solve your probems you have better sit back and think about what will really happen. Years of lawsuits. no contract for years. Management is already putting 5 330's out west early next year. I could easily see them moving more planes out west. If usapa happens there will never be a merged airline. The transition agrrement is still binding/ Which means no contract will ever be voted in on the west side that alters Nicolau or puts in fences. So Prepare for high Usapa assesments and prepare to live on LOA 93 til about 2014....

 

[JoeMerchant]

So how is USAPA a "Union" when 40 percent of the pilot group wont be paying dues? It is not a Union...It is an attempt, and I stress attempe, to Screw the AWA pilots. All that will win in the endis management. We need to negotiate a contract and move on. Then get a new Union. When all pilots East and West are on Board. Otherwise this place will never work out. If you think USAPA is going to solve your probems you have better sit back and think about what will really happen. Years of lawsuits. no contract for years. Management is already putting 5 330's out west early next year. I could easily see them moving more planes out west. If usapa happens there will never be a merged airline. The transition agrrement is still binding/ Which means no contract will ever be voted in on the west side that alters Nicolau or puts in fences. So Prepare for high Usapa assesments and prepare to live on LOA 93 til about 2014....

Hey I don't have a dog in the fight.....and quite frankly I don't have much sympathy for the East pilots.....Over the years they have made their bed.....But the fact remains USAPA would be a union......

Now that doesn't mean it would be a "good" union, or that you would be together holding hands singing Kumbaya....but ALPA doesn't offer that either......It is time to teach ALPA a lesson however.....ALPA has been too complacent for too long.....They need to be taught a lesson......

The smartest thing would be for the Easties and Westies to get together and hammer out an agreement and dump ALPA.....But then world peace is about as likely.....

This is the heart of ALPA's problems....we are a loose association of independant pilot groups that look out for ourselves before we look out for anyone else.....That won't work regardless of the alphabet name that represents us.....

USAPA won't unify the pilots anymore or any less than ALPA....but it will teach ALPA a lesson......

 

[Captzaahlie]

They should have stapled your ass, whiney b!tch. How many times did you need to go bankrupt before you liquidated? You should thank those guys for saving your company and the fact that you still have a job. Stop trying to make everyone as miserable as yourselves.

Those "guys" ( the pilots) didn't "save" the airline......

They work for management and a company that "saved" another company or more precisely bought a company and merged it into their own larger company taking that.
The pilots didn't come up with the plan or execute the deal so I see no need to thank fellow pilots.
Maybe send Parker a case of his favorite adult beverage if you feel so compelled, but the hired hands didn't do any actual saving. Don't pat yourself on the back just for showing up for work.

 

[learflyer]

I'll never go to the airwines.....Never.

amen! I'll just sit on my rocking chair in KSOP in the peace and quiet while waiting for my pax. Why don't you (whiny) airline guys "staple" my a$$?:crying:

 

[Morning Wood]

Regionals flying more and more of the domestic routes are simply a more insidious version of the B-scale. Worse b/c they fly mainline passengers all over the country but don't get a seniority number out of it. It is CLEARLY the Senior Pilots at mainline sacrificing junior pilots to keep something for themselves. I'm tired of it being framed any other way.

At what point should regionals have started getting seniority numbers at majors? They've been carrying mainline ticketed passengers for more than 25 years.

 

[~~~^~~~]

A denied J/S over a lanyard?

Just might have to chalk that up to one person's lack of judgment and use superior judgment to forget about it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

At what point should regionals have started getting seniority numbers at majors? They've been carrying mainline ticketed passengers for more than 25 years.

When they were bought by their major partners and/or when they became operationally integrated parts of the mainline brand. All pilots should have insisted on One List to stop outsourcing.

Even as ugly as East v/s West is, it is preferable to having the Company whipsaw the two groups and transfer airplanes back and forth to beat down wages.

 

[ferlo]

So, should an America West take off his ALPA lanyard when J/S on East Metal, since ALPA has already screwed the EAST?

Excellent Point

Total B.S. This is just the same rhetorical word puke used to fire up the East. It still doesn't hide the fact that their MEC totally Screwed up. Place the blame where it squarely belongs and Lynch those stupid M.Fers before you burn down the house.

 

[Captzaahlie]

amen! I'll just sit on my rocking chair in KSOP in the peace and quiet while waiting for my pax. Why don't you (whiny) airline guys "staple" my a$$?:crying:

In all honesty I'm not trying to be an "ass" here, but your "ass" is already "stapled" to the FBO while you wait for your pax.

 

[TWA Dude]

This is the heart of ALPA's problems....we are a loose association of independant pilot groups that look out for ourselves before we look out for anyone else.....That won't work regardless of the alphabet name that represents us.....

While that's a true statement it also ignores the strengths of ALPA: sheer numbers and political influence. Let's take a hypothetical that every airline has its own in-house union. Sure, they'd each be represented nicely but would this scenario adequately protect the profession as a whole more effectively than one union for all pilots? Notice how other unionized groups have not felt it desirable to go independent en masse?

I'm no ALPA cheerleader; just a pragmatist. I see greater good coming from all airline pilots belonging to one union. There are problems, BIG problems in ALPA, but I don't see dozens of independent unions solving anything.

USAPA won't unify the pilots anymore or any less than ALPA....but it will teach ALPA a lesson......

What lesson is that? The pilot group that whines the loudest should get whatever it wants?

The USAirways (East) pilot's group problems aren't with ALPA. ALPA is merely their scapegoat. Their problems are a result of bankruptcies and a sense of entitlement. USAPA or any other union will not solve these problems. The USAPA drive is only about one thing: trying to get around binding arbitration. The law is not on their side.

 

[PCL_128]

You are showing your true colors and that of ALPA.....You can't win in the battlefield of ideas, so you would rather resort to a juvenile jumpseat war.....

Your side doesn't have any ideas. You have nothing but complaints. When asked for solutions, you can provide none. All you can do is bitch and whine for eternity. That's not productive, so I have no desire to get stuck listening to you.

USAPA would be a union....but since it isn't ALPA, you don't like them.....This isn't a union/non union issue....it is an ALPA issue....If it isn't ALPA, you don't accept it.....

No, this isn't a union; this is a giant sham that was created to destroy the seniority rights of the West pilots that they were awarded in a legally binding arbitration that the East agreed to.

 

[PCL_128]

...but it will teach ALPA a lesson......

The phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Anyone know how the Contract is going for East and West? That new seniority list won't go into efffect until its only one pilot group, right?

 

[Occam's Razor]

I find those silly ALPA lanyards offensive......should I kick them off the jumpseat? I find you offensive......should I kick you off the jumpseat?....

Heck no!

Sue 'em!

Isn't that how you respond to things you don't like?

 

[TWA Dude]

Anyone know how the Contract is going for East and West? That new seniority list won't go into efffect until its only one pilot group, right?

There are no contract talks going on. The East withdrew last summer. Any new contract must be ratified by both East and West sides (per the Transition Agreement). USAPA is telling people they can just renegotiate the TA. If they win it will almost be fun to watch them back off from their promises quicker than a politician.

 

[737 Pylt]

In all honesty I'm not trying to be an "ass" here, but your "ass" is already "stapled" to the FBO while you wait for your pax.

Roger that!:laugh:

737

 

[737 Pylt]

Your side doesn't have any ideas. You have nothing but complaints.

Sure they had ideas. It was to try and bankrupt my union....They couldn't get hired, so they sued!

When asked for solutions, you can provide none. All you can do is bitch and whine for eternity.

Let's not forget about stealing LEC minutes and not returning them!

That's not productive, so I have no desire to get stuck listening to you. No, this isn't a union; this is a giant sham that was created to destroy the seniority rights of the West pilots that they were awarded in a legally binding arbitration that the East agreed to.

Well said!

737

 

[ableone]

Assuming Mccain is elected, and he has his way with cabotage (because it will benefit the "consumer" who's job has not yet been offshored) will it be considered a jumpseat war if we decline to carry an Air France/KLM guy who is jumping to Denver to pick up his domestic pairing.

 

[xpdriver]

Looks like one of the East USAIR pilots was just denied the J/S on a WEST Aircraft from SFO to CLT. (Which is an original EAST route). Looks like he got denied because he was wearing a USAPA lanyard. Next time I do SEA LAS or LAS SAN or PHX SFO or PHX SLC etc. I will not let a WEST Pilot on the J/S until this is resolved. And what I am hearing , this will be done by many AAA captains.

Let the games begin.

Marty

Part of the reason wages are low and benefits sux at the majors is because of all the back stabing. Its never going to get better because all I hear is Me Me Me....(Plus MGMT suxs)

 

[Captzaahlie]

Part of the reason wages are low and benefits sux at the majors is because of all the back stabing. Its never going to get better because all I hear is Me Me Me....(Plus MGMT suxs)

I have to agree and I double dare anyone here on FI to come up with a solution to this problem!


Management still sucks in "most cases"
(they feel the need to say yes to their
bosses who are only interested in making $'s)
I don't think that is changeable......
:angryfire

"Yes men" will always be "yes men" and/or be "two faced" liars.

 

[FutureHeavyAC]

This is why I told them "No, thank you".....

 

[Old School 737]

The jumpseat is a privilege, not a right, please everybody treat it as such and act appropriate and respectful, whatever side you are on.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Assuming Mccain is elected, and he has his way with cabotage (because it will benefit the "consumer" who's job has not yet been offshored) will it be considered a jumpseat war if we decline to carry an Air France/KLM guy who is jumping to Denver to pick up his domestic pairing.

It depends....will your airline have a Jumpseat agreement with them?

Just because an airline flies into this country doesn't automatically mean they can ride any jumpseat.

For example...AeroMexico isn't on our J/S list..are they on yours?

 

[Freight Dog]

I read posts here and on ALPA's message boards, and I find it disgusting that people will bring politics on the jumpseat.

Jumpseat should be exempt from any kind of a pissing contest. It's a ride home or ride to work. Leave it alone and keep it neutral.