Most expensive fractional?

[MALSR]

Just curious, who is the most expensive fractional from an owners perspective? Anyone know?

 

[fischman]

NetJets is.

BTW, we have the largest market share as well.

 

[Some guy]

You have to define most expensive. Every fractional owner has their own perspective when it comes to what they value in a service. What are you looking for in a fractional? If you are talking price only, then NetJets is probably the most expensive in dollar amount. What are the recovery times of the fractionals when you have a mechanical? If you have a mechanical, and operator A can recover your flight in 10 hours versus operator B who can recover in 1, then A could be the most expensive if you are trying to make it to an important business meeting.

A better question might be "Which fractional has the best value for my money?"

SG

 

[FR8DOG777]

Flops

For sure it is Flight Options CUZ IF WE AIN"T LATE WE AIN"T COMING.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

NetJets is. [/e quote]

Not true. Prices may have recently changed, however, 12 months ago CS was more expensive than NJ's on all similiar aircraft types. A share on an XL or Sovereign at CS would have cost you more than a share at NJ. I saw this market research on paper by an independent market analysis team. NJ has a wider fleet and so I believe they can command and do command top dollar for all of thier unique fleet types. I also agree that they would have the best percieved market value due to PHENOMINAL recovery times. (This was also present in the market analysis) Prices may have recently changed as this research is about a year old, but NJ is not always the most expensive when comparing similiar a/c types.

 

[jonjuan]

NetJets is.

Who told you this? Management? Not accurate.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

BTW, I was once told CS was able to pull this off by being extremly accomodating to owners on schedule changes. This went out of the window when we implented hard written duty rules for the flight crews. CS used to very accomodating to the owners at the exspense of the QOL of the flightcrew.

 

[jonjuan]

You have to define most expensive. Every fractional owner has their own perspective when it comes to what they value in a service. What are you looking for in a fractional? If you are talking price only, then NetJets is probably the most expensive in dollar amount. What are the recovery times of the fractionals when you have a mechanical? If you have a mechanical, and operator A can recover your flight in 10 hours versus operator B who can recover in 1, then A could be the most expensive if you are trying to make it to an important business meeting.

A better question might be "Which fractional has the best value for my money?"

SG

Exactly and to further this, which fractional has a larger demand placed on its fleet by more users. Remember, demand increases exponentially when owner demand increases. Owner demand increases when aircraft are increasingly divided into more parts. Operationally, it's much more difficult to manage 32-owners per aircraft (25-hour cards) than 16 (fractional) as each demand event potentially has a repositioning event (both crew and aircraft), mechanical, and recovery. Age of fleet also factors in significantly as well as overall dispatch reliability of a particular aircraft type. A 13 year old CX or Ultra certainly has a lower dispatch reliability (which in turn drives last minute recovery) than a 2-3 year old Gulfstream, for example. One reason why FLOPs is moving toward newer aircraft. They found their older aircraft (and newer beechjets) had a lower dispatch reliability rate. NJA is moving toward that as they now keep aircraft in their fleet for 13 years. Older aircraft simply break more frequently which leads to more tail number changes communicated to owners (which many don't like).

 

[pilotyip]

That is why they call us when they can't meet their owners demand. USA Jet to the rescue. They must like us a lot they are coming back for their renewal inspection.

 

[fischman]

Not true. Prices may have recently changed, however, 12 months ago CS was more expensive than NJ's on all similiar aircraft types. A share on an XL or Sovereign at CS would have cost you more than a share at NJ. I saw this market research on paper by an independent market analysis team. NJ has a wider fleet and so I believe they can command and do command top dollar for all of thier unique fleet types. I also agree that they would have the best percieved market value due to PHENOMINAL recovery times. (This was also present in the market analysis) Prices may have recently changed as this research is about a year old, but NJ is not always the most expensive when comparing similiar a/c types.

Who told you this? Management? Not accurate.

I'm not going to argue you guys on this.

It is accurate.

 

[glasspilot]

The major airlines used to be big on recovery times too. They would keep spare aircraft sitting around at locations so they could quickly recover if there were a mechanical.

Of course that costs extra money to do but that was worked into the cost of the operation.

Then along came the LCC's and the consumer was presented with a choice; pay more for better product (spare aircraft, onboard amenities, nicer boarding areas ect) or save money with a no frills Low Cost Carrier.

They consumer has spoken and the majors are busy ripping out first class seats and figuring out how best to charge you for a Coke or a window seat.

How does this relate to corporate aviation? I'm not so sure. But I wouldn't be too quick to spout out that corporate customers will always be willing to pay a premium for hard to quantify intangibles like recovery times.

If asked of course they'll want it...but at what price?

 

[gunfyter]

I have had several pax tell me, "I don't care what it costs... I want my Citation X."

A half hour or 1 hr or 2 hr delay in Recovery time...

Well what's one hour of MY time worth. Well sccording to our payscales its worth about $100.

What if 1 hr of Bill Gates's time worth? Or Tiger Wood if he is going to be late to a Golf Tournament?


Going with the lowest bidder does not make sense. You go with THE BEST... and PAY what it costs.

These people are not drinking Sam's Club COLA instead of Coca Cola.

 

[Galaxy]

For sure it is Flight Options CUZ IF WE AIN"T LATE WE AIN"T COMING.

Nice...whats the latest motto..We give you more
.....Because we pay less....

 

[Willy21]

How does this relate to corporate aviation? I'm not so sure. But I wouldn't be too quick to spout out that corporate customers will always be willing to pay a premium for hard to quantify intangibles like recovery times.

As long as the customer views their time as money they will pay.

Comparing the corporate customer to an airline customer is apples to oranges. They are not the same.

 

[jonjuan]

I'm not going to argue you guys on this.

It is accurate.

Nope, partner. Not going to argue with you (in some cases). CS CJ3 AND FLEX LR40XR are MORE than NJA 400XP, Ultra and Encore. CS XLS is MORE than NJA XLS. CS Sovereign is MORE than NJA Sovereign. FLEX C300 is MORE than NJA CX and G200. That's 2/3 of the fleet comparisons.

 

[fischman]

OK big man. You win...

 

[jonjuan]

OK big man. You win...

Not trying to "win" big man. Simply telling the truth which you somehow refuse to grasp. Don't think everything you believe.

 

[kevin_p]

I'm curious if anyone has any real numbers to back up their statements or all of this is purely hearsay.

For you guys who seem to know exactly who costs the most for each aircraft, please post the costs of each fractional...I would be interested in seeing what the exact numbers are.

 

[Some guy]

Not sure what the exact numbers are. Let's change the question a little bit.

All bias aside, if you have enough money to buy into a share, where would you spend your money?

 

[Bruce Dickenson]

That is why they call us when they can't meet their owners demand. USA Jet to the rescue. They must like us a lot they are coming back for their renewal inspection.

If I was a NetJets owner, I would be Thrilled to be put in a 40 Year old USAJet with its DUI and accident prone pilots! Can I buy an ugly old rustbucket DC9 share? Can we share the cabin space with car parts going to ELP? Sweet!