Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Pilots Smooth Way for DAL/NWA Merger

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

DTW320

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Posts
854
By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/16/08

A major obstacle to a possible merger between Delta and Northwest airlines has been cleared, after airline and union negotiators agreed to rely on a "conceptual" plan to blend the airlines' pilot ranks, said people briefed on the talks.

While the contemplated merger agreement could still fall apart in coming days, the decision regarding the airlines' pilot unions should allow Delta's board of directors to consider approval of the deal at a meeting scheduled Wednesday in New York, these people said.

If approved, Delta and Northwest, the nation's third- and fifth-largest airlines, respectively, could announce a merger pact later next week, these people said.

Delta and Northwest have been in talks for weeks, trying to put together a pact that would create the world's largest airline, with 79,000 employees in their mainline operations and major hubs in Atlanta, Detroit and Minneapolis, as well as substantial routes to Asia and Europe.

The talks idled over the past week as the carriers waited for their units of the Air Line Pilots Association to work out a plan to merge members' seniority lists.

The airlines hoped the unions would hammer out as many details as possible, people briefed on the talks said, to avoid lengthy delays and litigation that typically accompany transitions to a merged union.
The unions did not work out every detail, as airline management had hoped, but they did reach a "conceptual plan of integration," said one person describing the talks. The airlines are now moving ahead with final details of their tie-up, the people familiar with the talks said.

Delta spokesman Kent Landers declined to comment Friday beyond the company's announcement late last year that its board of directors created a committee to explore strategic options, including mergers.

However, in a weekly message to employees Friday, Delta Chief Executive Richard Anderson said any decision regarding a merger will be aimed at creating a stronger company and serving the "long-term interests of all Delta stakeholders, including employees, customers, shareholders and the communities we serve."

Anderson, who did not comment on any specific merger scenario, added that the company's "thoughtful look at consolidation is focused on whether it could allow us to do things for employees that couldn't be accomplished otherwise or as quickly — things like accelerating our long-term commitment to improve compensation to industry standard wages, and other growth opportunities.

He said any deal would offer "seniority protection" for frontline employees.

The chairman of ALPA's Delta unit, Capt. Lee Moak, told pilots in a letter Thursday that any negotiation to integrate seniority lists "often turns out to be a protracted and very contentious process that almost always ends in binding arbitration." He did not comment directly on the merger discussions, but said the union maintains its position to support a merger that improves Delta's viability and rewards pilots.

Both Delta's and Northwest's pilot unions hope a merger will provide stock in the combined airline and allow them to reverse earlier pay and benefit cuts.
"I think of it [Moak's letter] as a reassurance letter to tell us they are working on the deal and have all the bases covered," said one top Delta pilot. "They are trying to address the seniority issue in the middle of the negotiations instead of waiting until the end."

A pilot's seniority standing determines pay level, the type of plane the pilot can fly and the routes open to that pilot.

"I think there's a good chance for a blueprint for a realistic plan by the time it's announced," said the senior pilot.

ALPA leaders could agree to the merger and then take specifics back to their membership for a vote after the announcement. If the membership rejects it, it would be thrown into arbitration.

Under the expected deal, the two carriers' pilot unions would be rewarded with a voting seat on the combined carriers' board of directors, the people familiar with the talks said. Pilots also would share in equity, expected to total roughly 7 percent, to be divvied among management and employees.
According to the people who were briefed on the negotiations, these are the broad outlines of the planned deal, if approved by Delta's and Northwest's boards: The airlines will combine in a stock-swap deal in which the merged company would be called Delta. Its headquarters would remain in Atlanta, while Northwest's current Minneapolis headquarters would become a secondary operational center.

As previously reported, Delta CEO Anderson — who formerly headed Northwest in recent years and then later joined Delta's board — would head the merged carrier. Northwest's current CEO, Doug Steenland, would be on the company's board of directors but wouldn't have a direct management role.

One detail that apparently hasn't been nailed down, according to these people, is a potential investment by Air France/KLM. The French and Dutch carriers, which merged under a holding company, have offered to invest almost $1 billion in a Delta-Northwest merger, but the companies have not worked out what, if any, stake the foreign carriers may eventually hold, according to these people.
 
Certainly looks as though this may become a reality. Im a little surprised, though to see the unions agree on a "conceptual" plan within such a short period of time.
 
What are the chances of furlough? If there are, will the mainly be on the NWA side?
 
He said any deal would offer "seniority protection" for frontline employees.

A pilot's seniority standing determines pay level, the type of plane the pilot can fly and the routes open to that pilot.

"I think there's a good chance for a blueprint for a realistic plan by the time it's announced," said the senior pilot.

Well there ya go, that solves everything. Pay your dues junior, for the good of the profession! :puke:

Delta needs this merger like Michael Jordan needs a football bat, but it will make every single executive and company lawyer rich so it looks like its going to happen, the almighty Oberstar not withstanding. :laugh:
 
What are the chances of furlough? If there are, will the mainly be on the NWA side?
Nevermind... ALPA would prefer we wait and see what they negotiated for us.

Delta's smallest jet is larger than NWA's A319, or DC-9. Does anyone expect the NWA pilot group to agree to anything that would allow a Delta pilot to even hold on to the aircraft and pay they have currently? Really?
 
Last edited:
Fence

Can you say FENCE? NWA pilots can. Their fences from the last merger just came down a few years ago. This will be no different. USAir and America West have the same deal going on right now.
 
Nevermind... ALPA would prefer we wait and see what they negotiated for us.

Delta's smallest jet is larger than NWA's A319, or DC-9. Does anyone expect the NWA pilot group to agree to anything that would allow a Delta pilot to even hold on to the aircraft and pay they have currently? Really?

It really chuckles me, all this talk about what DALPA is going to negotiate for you.
Isn't this the same DALPA that tried to strip you of your pass privileges a short time ago while you were at ASA?

737
 
It really chuckles me, all this talk about what DALPA is going to negotiate for you.
Isn't this the same DALPA that tried to strip you of your pass privileges a short time ago while you were at ASA?

737

Ease up on the guy. He's on your team now. If I'm not mistaken he has apologized for his wiley ways.
 
I would venture to guess anywhere from 200-500 furloughs, the first of which would go to the holding tank known as Compass airlines, and the rest to just sit back and think about what they have done. Bad pilot!
 
I would venture to guess anywhere from 200-500 furloughs, the first of which would go to the holding tank known as Compass airlines, and the rest to just sit back and think about what they have done. Bad pilot!

Where do you come up with this? Good guess, eh? Looking at your experience I would venture to guess you are an ASA or SkyWestie. So, you have the inside track, huh? We are still hiring 100 in March, and 50 a month after that. I guess you better tell those people that....It will take 6-8 months for this to clear the DOJ and guys like Oberstar probably, and hiring will continue because there is still a chance the DOJ will turn it down.... And to appease the lawmakers, there will have to be some concessions on possible base closures that would cause job loss. (Anderson already agreed under pressure to keep CVG open)

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:
I would venture to guess anywhere from 200-500 furloughs, the first of which would go to the holding tank known as Compass airlines, and the rest to just sit back and think about what they have done. Bad pilot!

I would venture to say your wrong barring a 911 type incident. NWA has said it will park around 30 DC9's I believe. Thats what, 180 pilots? Both Delta and NWA have alot of orders coming online in the next 24 months that need bodies to fill them. Even with a downturn in the economy they see the key to profitability is taking delivery of those aircraft and flying international destinations that benefit from current exchange rate and less competition. Not to mention, I think the aproval of the deal will be based on no immediate furloughes. Within six months with all the airplanes coming on board the overstaffing will move to understaffing. Just the facts.
 
I would venture to say your wrong barring a 911 type incident. NWA has said it will park around 30 DC9's I believe. Thats what, 180 pilots? Both Delta and NWA have alot of orders coming online in the next 24 months that need bodies to fill them. Even with a downturn in the economy they see the key to profitability is taking delivery of those aircraft and flying international destinations that benefit from current exchange rate and less competition. Not to mention, I think the aproval of the deal will be based on no immediate furloughes. Within six months with all the airplanes coming on board the overstaffing will move to understaffing. Just the facts.

I agree with you and Lets not forget that the hiring NWA is currently doing already takes into consideration the retirement of those DC9s.;)
 
Ive got nothing to back that up with, just a guess. My hopes are certainly on no furloughs, perhaps the fence will help with that for the time being. Truth of the matter is, though, Compass is a perfect holding tank, as is Mesaba. Seems as though they could act in the same way that Eagle did for the American furloughs from 9/11.
 
Ive got nothing to back that up with, just a guess. My hopes are certainly on no furloughs, perhaps the fence will help with that for the time being. Truth of the matter is, though, Compass is a perfect holding tank, as is Mesaba. Seems as though they could act in the same way that Eagle did for the American furloughs from 9/11.

I'm guessing you don't know what you are talking about and you have no supporting data.
 
No need to guess that, I just told you it was a guess. Probably all that anyone can come up with right now, his/her .02.
 
No need to guess that, I just told you it was a guess. Probably all that anyone can come up with right now, his/her .02.

Hold your ground, man. Saying there won't be any furloughs is probably just as stoopid as saying there will be.

Management will let both camps know in about 6-8 months when they run out of "synergies".

 
Ive got nothing to back that up with, just a guess. My hopes are certainly on no furloughs, perhaps the fence will help with that for the time being. Truth of the matter is, though, Compass is a perfect holding tank, as is Mesaba. Seems as though they could act in the same way that Eagle did for the American furloughs from 9/11.

Nothing is certain right now for any of the Delta and NWA regionals. Mesaba might or might not exist when the dust settles, but we will not be a holding tank, as we are protected from flow backs.

Currently Mesaba has had no one flow up, so there are no available flow back spots. 6 to 8 months from now, we might have zero flow ups (it's not certain until it happens, as I'm sure the 9 or 12 guys held back all know), or as many as 20-30 maybe. That would mean at most 20-30 spots for flow backs.

Compass has a different deal, so a Compass pilot can address that.
 
I don't see furloughs in the next 12-18 months At DeltaWest. However, if a full-blown recession settles in, and the international market suffers, I could see one happening after that. And that would be merger or no merger.
 
Where do you come up with this? Good guess, eh? Looking at your experience I would venture to guess you are an ASA or SkyWestie. So, you have the inside track, huh? We are still hiring 100 in March, and 50 a month after that. I guess you better tell those people that....It will take 6-8 months for this to clear the DOJ and guys like Oberstar probably, and hiring will continue because there is still a chance the DOJ will turn it down.... And to appease the lawmakers, there will have to be some concessions on possible base closures that would cause job loss. (Anderson already agreed under pressure to keep CVG open) Bye Bye--General Lee

My above comment notwithstanding, it's food for thought that they admitted they are hiring "in case the merger doesn't go through". So does that mean they'll be overstaffed if it does?
 
deleted entire post....
 
Last edited:
My above comment notwithstanding, it's food for thought that they admitted they are hiring "in case the merger doesn't go through". So does that mean they'll be overstaffed if it does?

I don't think so, since we are hiring for INTL routes that NWA does not currently fly to. Will they immediately park the 68 larger DC9s (-40/-50s)? I doubt that too, since they use them on current routes that compete with LCCs etc. Supposedly NWA has taken into account the 30 or so DC9-30s they are parking this year, and they are still hiring. A lot of the current domestic planes that can fly INTL routes (NWA 757s etc) are being fit with winglets and are being sent to more lucrative cities overseas from their hubs and other cities, like BDL to AMS. I think if anything the combined hiring will slow a bit, but not stop. We are still getting 6 777LRs in 3 months (Dec 31st(08) to March 31s(09)), and just those planes alone will cause a large bump in future hiring, and they are FIRM orders. Do you know how long those 777LRs can fly? The BOM to JFK sector can be 17 hours long, with 4 pilots. If that is a daily flight, and others like that are added (maybe LAX to SYD??), how many people are needed to fill 6 more of them? We get three of them in one day (Mar 31st, 09). Add to that the 7 737-700s we get this year (and more next year), and maybe some MD90s.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:
Anyone hearing any rumors on the supposed "agreement" they care to share? I know nothing has been announced but the silence is deafening. The few rumors I've heard haven't given me a warm fuzzy. No offense to anyone from NW but, having worked there for a short time, I see very little to gain and much to lose for the DL guys.
 
Last edited:
Lee Moak and company know they will be chopped to bits if they come up with something one sided. Let's see how it works out.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Anyone hearing any rumors on the supposed "agreement" they care to share? I know nothing has been announced but the silence is deafening. The few rumors I've heard haven't given me a warm fuzzy. No offense to anyone from NW but, having worked there for a short time, I see very little to gain and much to lose for the DL guys.

Rumors are just that rumors. Do you actually expect to get a warm fuzzy from a rumor? Will the rumor that gives you that warm fuzzy be any more valid than the one that didn't?

Look, we are just going to have to have faith in our respective merger committees and elected representatives.

Delving into rumors will only increase the level of anxiety you feel.

Just my two cents.
 
Rumors are just that rumors. Do you actually expect to get a warm fuzzy from a rumor? Will the rumor that gives you that warm fuzzy be any more valid than the one that didn't?

Look, we are just going to have to have faith in our respective merger committees and elected representatives.

Delving into rumors will only increase the level of anxiety you feel.

Just my two cents.

I know your right, there. The more I look at it though, I just don't really see anyway this can come out to be a even a so so deal for us. Especially those of us in the middle of the pack and down. Take the bases alone for example. How to you protect DL guys in, not so arguably better bases, from terminal career stagnation or worse? I worked at NW and the place is full of commuters from warm climates.

Anyway, no one's going to ask my opinion (I hope I'll get a vote though), so I'll try to chill.
 
Take the bases alone for example. How to you protect DL guys in, not so arguably better bases, from terminal career stagnation or worse?

I think we all have our concerns. We're concerned about their ice cold bases and their relatively larger narrow bodied fleet of DC-9s and 319. I'm sure the NWA guys are concerned about their 747s, their DOH and their larger number of retirements in the short term.

Fences can certainly help, but unlike the proverbial fence that makes a good neighbor, tall fences can also divide a pilot group. It's going to be a balancing act.
 
No turning back

FWIW, a post from another forum indicates that even the MECs are powerless once a list has been drawn up by the merger committee:

That's the way the Merger Committee functions under ALPA Merger and Fragmentation Policy. Remember, the Merger Committee is elected by the MEC and the MEC can recall them and elect a new committee. But once a SLI is inked by the committee, that's it. No turning back, no MEC ratification, no memrat.

However, if not to their liking, the company can reject the list and send it back to ALPA to be renegotiated. The timeline then becomes much shorter and still ends in binding arbitration if no list is produced.

I can see the reason for this -- to avoid endless fighting over the list. But there will still be endless beefing.
 
Certainly looks as though this may become a reality. Im a little surprised, though to see the unions agree on a "conceptual" plan within such a short period of time.

It's time for pilots to unite, take care of their brothers/sisters and not only think about themselves.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom