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Item number 77 you will never see happen at Skywest...

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120% Torque

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2002
Posts
277
Hundreds Rally for Alaska Contract

More than 700 Alaska Airlines pilots and family members packed a SeaTac hotel on January 20 to show support for the Negotiating Committee and to send management a message that any new contract must include a solid raise, protect retirement, and provide job security and quality health benefits.
“If there was any doubt that this contract is of vital importance to each and every one of us, just look around today,” said Alaska’s MEC chairman, Capt. Tom Crank, as he surveyed the crowd.

Alaska’s pilots have been in direct negotiations with management for slightly more than 1 year. Still unresolved are such issues as pay, retirement, health benefits, and scope provisions.
Not just Alaska pilots are fighting for a new contract, ALPA's president, Capt. John Prater, said—it’s all of ALPA. “All of ALPA is behind the Alaska pilots and their families.”

“We have reached agreements on two-thirds of your contract,” said Negotiating Committee chair, F/O Paul Stuart. “But right now, we are negotiating sections with direct financial impact, and while I’d like to report favorably on the progress, I cannot. Management still has made no indication that it is willing to provide increases on sections of the contract that affect your pocketbook.”
While management has not shown a willingness to make needed improvements, Alaska’s pilots are committed to seeing the process through until their objectives are met, said Phil Comstock of the Wilson Polling Center, who spoke and presented data collected in a January poll of Alaska pilots.

Three-fourths of Alaska’s pilots say that they want their negotiators to negotiate as long as it takes to achieve their goals and that they are preparing themselves financially for the possibility of self-help. The pilots’ willingness to engage in a lawful strike and their support for the MEC and Negotiating Committee also show that the pilots mean business, Comstock added.
 
John Prater, said—it’s all of ALPA. “All of ALPA is behind the Alaska pilots and their families.”

That's pretty funny....All of ALPA isn't behind a single issue.....ALPA put the "fun" in disfunctional........
 
Face it Joe... when it comes to you and ALPA... you are a failure.... I'm sure you can fly an ATR well... but your failed elected ALPA position and RJDC abortion just show that you can't do for you so you blame ALPA for not doing it....back to the egg nog for you Joe!!
 
ALPA is a failure and the constant attacks on the company that I now work for are getting old.... Skywest now owns ASA, and if I have to choose between ALPA or Skywest......I will support Skywest.....

Until ALPA can get a hold of the whipsaw problem within a portfolio....I have to look out for number one.....and that ain't you......

You ALPA cheerleaders want to blame everything on Republicans and Skywest.....rather than look in the mirror.....
 
ALPA is a failure and the constant attacks on the company that I now work for are getting old.... Skywest now owns ASA, and if I have to choose between ALPA or Skywest......I will support Skywest.....

Your constant attacks and drivel on ALPA are getting old.

Until ALPA can get a hold of the whipsaw problem within a portfolio....I have to look out for number one.....and that ain't you......

Agreed. What do you have in mind? Got any ideas besides divisive and expensive lawsuits Joe?

And please.... only reply with ideas that are pragmatic... none of this idealistic rhetoric that makes you look smart if only the dumb people would do what you say...

You ALPA cheerleaders want to blame everything on Republicans and Skywest.....rather than look in the mirror.....

ALPA has lots of problems Joe.... there are those that realize it and stick with the union trying to make it better regardless of thier fustration...

and then there are those who become one issue cry babies that withdraw from the organization because ALPA won't change for them on that issue....

which one are you Joe?















back to the Nog!!
 
Rez....whatever happened to "brand scope"......That was a Woerth/McClain/Wychor idea?

Was that not realistic? Was ALPA yanking our chain?

You don't like my ideas, or solutions......but if you don't figure out a way to prevent whipsaw within a brand, don't get upset when some of just decide to compete instead....

I've given up on ALPA....you haven't....the burden is on you to prove me wrong.......

I'm going with the winner....and Skywest seems to be the one for now.....
 
Rez....whatever happened to "brand scope"......That was a Woerth/McClain/Wychor idea?

Was that not realistic? Was ALPA yanking our chain?

You don't like my ideas, or solutions......but if you don't figure out a way to prevent whipsaw within a brand, don't get upset when some of just decide to compete instead....

I've given up on ALPA....you haven't....the burden is on you to prove me wrong.......

I'm going with the winner....and Skywest seems to be the one for now.....

Why is the burden of proof on Rez? Traditionally, in debate, the burden of proof lies with the party challenging the status quo. That would be you.
 
Why is the burden of proof on Rez? Traditionally, in debate, the burden of proof lies with the party challenging the status quo. That would be you.

Because Rez is the one that says thing's will change if we just get involved and support ALPA.....The burden is on him to prove that ALPA can overcome the whipsaw.....

I don't expect ALPA to do anything about it......I don't support ALPA.....The burden of proof is on him if he wants to change things.....

The status quo will remain the same....it is Rez that is challenging the status quo.....
 
Rez....whatever happened to "brand scope"......That was a Woerth/McClain/Wychor idea?

Was that not realistic? Was ALPA yanking our chain?

You don't like my ideas, or solutions......but if you don't figure out a way to prevent whipsaw within a brand, don't get upset when some of just decide to compete instead....

Is it Woerth/McClain/Wychor or your idea Joe? Which is it...

I've given up on ALPA....you haven't....the burden is on you to prove me wrong.......

You've given up on ALPA 'cause you don't have the skillset, character and personality to stay with it. Plus you got your bank account handed to you oin the RJDC lawsuit...

Plus... if you are done with ALPA then why do you post your hate? Can't you let it go?

I'm going with the winner....and Skywest seems to be the one for now.....

Like I said... no character.... you are a flavor of the month kinda guy.... Skywest this year... whoever next year... see you at Skybus Joe...

Because Rez is the one that says thing's will change if we just get involved and support ALPA.....The burden is on him to prove that ALPA can overcome the whipsaw.....

Will change occue if we reject getting involved in our careers?

I don't expect ALPA to do anything about it......I don't support ALPA.....The burden of proof is on him if he wants to change things.....

I asked you to put up or shut up.... something you can't do.....of either one...

The status quo will remain the same....it is Rez that is challenging the status quo.....

Yep... I am saying to pilots... get informed educated and effective.... a majority of pilots don't do it....

What you are challenging Joe? that 1/2 gal container of egg nog... you can do it baby.... chug it!
 
Is it Woerth/McClain/Wychor or your idea Joe? Which is it...

Actually, RJDC had the idea for "inclusive scope" before Woerth/McClain/Wychor.....They coined the phrase "brand scope"......Fine....use their phrase, and give them credit, but only ALPA can pull it off with the assistance of the mainline MECs..... Like the Royal Bank of Scotland commercials..... "Less talk...make it happen"....... I don't want credit for it, I'm tired of the excuses as to why it can't be done....
[/quote]
 
I Hear....

ALPA is a failure and the constant attacks on the company that I now work for are getting old.... Skywest now owns ASA, and if I have to choose between ALPA or Skywest......I will support Skywest.....

Until ALPA can get a hold of the whipsaw problem within a portfolio....I have to look out for number one.....and that ain't you......

You ALPA cheerleaders want to blame everything on Republicans and Skywest.....rather than look in the mirror.....


I hear Skywest is hiring-if you think ALPA sucks so much, why the hell continue to work for an ALPA carrier?
Just go right over and apply, if you think it is so great to work for a non-unionized carrier......

-Rather just live in a van-down by the river and bitch about life, eh?

-I have flushed many better ideas than the RJDC down the toilet... A couple even had nuts!
 
I hear Skywest is hiring-if you think ALPA sucks so much, why the hell continue to work for an ALPA carrier?

Jmoney, I hate to break it to you, but both you and I already work for Skywest..... I know that hurts you, but it is true.....

What we as a group....both ASA and Skywest.....need to do is combine......ALPA doesn't want that because it will result in a representational vote and ALPA is worried it will lose....

I negotiated the agency shop language that requires you and me to pay dues...... That was a mistake.....see I can admit when I am wrong.....

There needs to be a single group.....not some blinding faith in a failed union.....
 
I don't recall ever seeing this sort of thing going on when NW, DL, or UA was negotiating contracts.

......this is a "photo op" for ALPA.....goes along with the "taking it back" BS..... It's all smoke and mirrors to divert attention from the fact that ALPA is crumbling......
 
Actually, RJDC had the idea for "inclusive scope" before Woerth/McClain/Wychor.....They coined the phrase "brand scope"......Fine....use their phrase, and give them credit, but only ALPA can pull it off with the assistance of the mainline MECs..... Like the Royal Bank of Scotland commercials..... "Less talk...make it happen"....... I don't want credit for it, I'm tired of the excuses as to why it can't be done....
[/quote]

Yo Joey.... remember CRM.... "its not who's right but what's right..." History will tell in flying the line vol XXIV that you were right about brand scope and you like Al Gore are the father of brand scope... its your baby baby.....

Problem is Joe... you had the great idea about scope but you lacked the implementation skills to make it work. You have no character, political skills, leadership, relationship building, patience and personality to make it happen..... so you sued.
 
Joe- I wish a regional airline was a career, (as a late bloomer myself), but it is not realistic. No amount of union alphabet soup will ever, I mean ever, bring you the rewards you want. Maybe you get to the head of the regional line, but every regional has it's turn in the barrel (think of the senior Comair guys just a few years ago). I hope you can and will move on. Cheers- rum
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
Yo Joey.... remember CRM.... "its not who's right but what's right..." History will tell in flying the line vol XXIV that you were right about brand scope and you like Al Gore are the father of brand scope... its your baby baby.....

Problem is Joe... you had the great idea about scope but you lacked the implementation skills to make it work. You have no character, political skills, leadership, relationship building, patience and personality to make it happen..... so you sued.

Rez.....I am not a politician and I never will be one.... I prefer to tell it exactly like I see it......If "brand scope" is best for all of us, then it is the responsibility of ALPA to push for it.....I prefer to call it like I see it.....If you want me to participate, I will, but I won't be muzzled by a union imposed gag order to tow the party line.....not in my nature.....

I understand "compromise", but I don't tow a "party line" in the interest of political expediency......

Get it done, or accept blame for failing to enact it.....the choice belongs to those of you in the Herndon inner circle.....
 
Joe- I wish a regional airline was a career, (as a late bloomer myself), but it is not realistic. No amount of union alphabet soup will ever, I mean ever, bring you the rewards you want. Maybe you get to the head of the regional line, but every regional has it's turn in the barrel (think of the senior Comair guys just a few years ago). I hope you can and will move on. Cheers- rum

rumrnr....it is a career to some of us..... I make over 100K a year with a good schedule.....and it is now my career..... I gave up on chasing the dream....and decided to make this job the best I can.... I know a lot of the CMR folks and they are good folks.....I am not interested in becoming ALPA's next failure...

Good luck to you....the next time I "move on".....it will involve getting on a boat with a bunch of Rum and Buffett....
 
Joe I hope it works for you, I really do. I just can't imagine being on the scheduling hook to the likes of that b-h Georgia (she is probably gone). And, I know you are senior but I know you have to deal with those ASA scheduling tools at some point.

BTW, my best experiences were from very senior ASA pilots and they were a great resource, as a new hire and later as a newbie captain!! I was very fortunate to have great guidance and I just want the best for my ASA brothers and sisters thats all. I hope it works out I just think the regional odds are more of a long shot is all.

I hope you find that gig with the rum!!
rum
 
Joe I hope it works for you, I really do. I just can't imagine being on the scheduling hook to the likes of that b-h Georgia (she is probably gone). And, I know you are senior but I know you have to deal with those ASA scheduling tools at some point.

BTW, my best experiences were from very senior ASA pilots and they were a great resource, as a new hire and later as a newbie captain!! I was very fortunate to have great guidance and I just want the best for my ASA brothers and sisters thats all. I hope it works out I just think the regional odds are more of a long shot is all.

I hope you find that gig with the rum!!
rum

What's your favorite rum? Mine is from a little distillery in Barbados. Mmmm, rum punch with a shake of nutmeg.
 
Joe,

Is it true that you tried to run for an ALPA position and lost?

He "served" a three year term as an LEC (not MEC) Secretary-Treasurer where he only attended 4 meetings in the 3 years. He said he was boycotting the meetings until the MEC listened to him and acted on his demands.

He also supported a "coalition" consisting of his girlfriend and 3 other pilots she rounded up who tried to oust all of the current MEC members in the most recent election. They didn't succeed.
 
I just can't imagine being on the scheduling hook to the likes of that b-h Georgia (she is probably gone).
rum

Oh no... Georgia is in Crew Planning now writing lines! Good Times!
 
One thing that you'll never see at Alaska is a domicile that I'm interested in. If they had their pilots spread across the country like Skywest does, their turnout would probably be lower
 
Rez.....I am not a politician and I never will be one....

Of course not! You're a man's man! A pilot's pilot. Someone who can't accept that a rational person could possibly have a different opinion on a key issue than you.

"Compromise"? The obligation of the other guy!

I prefer to tell it exactly like I see it......

'Cuz your priorities, opinions, and plans are always the best, right? Like that RJDC lawsuit. Slam-dunk, no-brainer, we'll-win-it-in-a-walk scheme.

(Quick! Somebody fax Dan Ford a MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner!)

Even a straight-shooter can kill the wrong target.

If "brand scope" is best for all of us, then it is the responsibility of ALPA to push for it.....

TILT!

Been there...tried that!

Somebody wanted 90% of the benefit with 0% of the cost. That killed any chance of seizing our best opportunity for Brand Scope. I was there. I was trying.

When ALPA screws the pooch...and boy, it does! It's when we adopt an All Or Nothing position and cling to it like loser stench clings to the RJDC. Any USAirway's guys wanna weigh-in on how "DOH or Death!" worked with the arbitrator?

What's wrong with ALPA?

1. You.
2. Everybody like you.
3. Everybody who listens to you.
4. The election process.

Congrats! You almost ran the table!
 
He "served" a three year term as an LEC (not MEC) Secretary-Treasurer where he only attended 4 meetings in the 3 years. He said he was boycotting the meetings until the MEC listened to him and acted on his demands.

Wow.... my four year old has a better "plays well with others" skillset.

He also supported a "coalition" consisting of his girlfriend and 3 other pilots she rounded up who tried to oust all of the current MEC members in the most recent election. They didn't succeed.

I bet the 'cloak and dagger' meetings in trench coats and sunglasses, with secret handshakes and code names was the highlighted of thier efforts...
 
Occam's Razor- what's wrong IYO with the election process? Apologies if you've said it before.
 
Occam's Razor- what's wrong IYO with the election process? Apologies if you've said it before.

Where to start!

1. ALPA, citing Dept of Labor "rules" doesn't permit campaigning via any ALPA-sponsored media. Direct mailing is allowed, but full benefit of the Internet and other media capabilities means members can't question candidates unless they run into them in the crew lounge. Which means...

2. At large airlines, very few pilots know the candidates or their positions on specific issues. Even as homogeneous as pilots tend to be, it's all about priorities and skills. Tough to determine when all you know is, "Been here 8-years. Flies the DC-9. Believes all pilots should be represented fairly." 'Kay...so who do you support for MEC Chairman? Do you like Block representation? etc.

3. Nominating part of the process is dumb. Paper ballots counted at LEC meetings that permit changed votes, but base the validity of membership on a management-generated roster that can be over a month old.

I've got another list of issues with how many we're choosing in the first place...but that's a tangent.
 
Where to start!

1. ALPA, citing Dept of Labor "rules" doesn't permit campaigning via any ALPA-sponsored media. Direct mailing is allowed, but full benefit of the Internet and other media capabilities means members can't question candidates unless they run into them in the crew lounge. Which means...

2. At large airlines, very few pilots know the candidates or their positions on specific issues. Even as homogeneous as pilots tend to be, it's all about priorities and skills. Tough to determine when all you know is, "Been here 8-years. Flies the DC-9. Believes all pilots should be represented fairly." 'Kay...so who do you support for MEC Chairman? Do you like Block representation? etc.

3. Nominating part of the process is dumb. Paper ballots counted at LEC meetings that permit changed votes, but base the validity of membership on a management-generated roster that can be over a month old.

I've got another list of issues with how many we're choosing in the first place...but that's a tangent.

So its basically like the presidential election process.;)
 
We should NOT confuse our service based economy with democracy.

Our service economy is designed for instant gratification, no waiting, and 100% satisfaction.

Democracy is slow, inconveinent and deliberate, with limited 100% guarantee or your money back.

Now, with that said, can the nomination/campaign process be better...... of course....

With internet voting and convienence should the particaption rate be 35%?
 

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