Item number 77 you will never see happen at Skywest...

[10nCLR]

Joe I hope it works for you, I really do. I just can't imagine being on the scheduling hook to the likes of that b-h Georgia (she is probably gone). And, I know you are senior but I know you have to deal with those ASA scheduling tools at some point.

BTW, my best experiences were from very senior ASA pilots and they were a great resource, as a new hire and later as a newbie captain!! I was very fortunate to have great guidance and I just want the best for my ASA brothers and sisters thats all. I hope it works out I just think the regional odds are more of a long shot is all.

I hope you find that gig with the rum!!
rum

What's your favorite rum? Mine is from a little distillery in Barbados. Mmmm, rum punch with a shake of nutmeg.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Joe,

Is it true that you tried to run for an ALPA position and lost?

He "served" a three year term as an LEC (not MEC) Secretary-Treasurer where he only attended 4 meetings in the 3 years. He said he was boycotting the meetings until the MEC listened to him and acted on his demands.

He also supported a "coalition" consisting of his girlfriend and 3 other pilots she rounded up who tried to oust all of the current MEC members in the most recent election. They didn't succeed.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I just can't imagine being on the scheduling hook to the likes of that b-h Georgia (she is probably gone).
rum

Oh no... Georgia is in Crew Planning now writing lines! Good Times!

 

[Skaff]

One thing that you'll never see at Alaska is a domicile that I'm interested in. If they had their pilots spread across the country like Skywest does, their turnout would probably be lower

 

[Occam's Razor]

Rez.....I am not a politician and I never will be one....

Of course not! You're a man's man! A pilot's pilot. Someone who can't accept that a rational person could possibly have a different opinion on a key issue than you.

"Compromise"? The obligation of the other guy!

I prefer to tell it exactly like I see it......

'Cuz your priorities, opinions, and plans are always the best, right? Like that RJDC lawsuit. Slam-dunk, no-brainer, we'll-win-it-in-a-walk scheme.

(Quick! Somebody fax Dan Ford a MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner!)

Even a straight-shooter can kill the wrong target.

If "brand scope" is best for all of us, then it is the responsibility of ALPA to push for it.....

TILT!

Been there...tried that!

Somebody wanted 90% of the benefit with 0% of the cost. That killed any chance of seizing our best opportunity for Brand Scope. I was there. I was trying.

When ALPA screws the pooch...and boy, it does! It's when we adopt an All Or Nothing position and cling to it like loser stench clings to the RJDC. Any USAirway's guys wanna weigh-in on how "DOH or Death!" worked with the arbitrator?

What's wrong with ALPA?

1. You.
2. Everybody like you.
3. Everybody who listens to you.
4. The election process.

Congrats! You almost ran the table!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

He "served" a three year term as an LEC (not MEC) Secretary-Treasurer where he only attended 4 meetings in the 3 years. He said he was boycotting the meetings until the MEC listened to him and acted on his demands.

Wow.... my four year old has a better "plays well with others" skillset.

He also supported a "coalition" consisting of his girlfriend and 3 other pilots she rounded up who tried to oust all of the current MEC members in the most recent election. They didn't succeed.

I bet the 'cloak and dagger' meetings in trench coats and sunglasses, with secret handshakes and code names was the highlighted of thier efforts...

 

[waveflyer]

Occam's Razor- what's wrong IYO with the election process? Apologies if you've said it before.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Occam's Razor- what's wrong IYO with the election process? Apologies if you've said it before.

Where to start!

1. ALPA, citing Dept of Labor "rules" doesn't permit campaigning via any ALPA-sponsored media. Direct mailing is allowed, but full benefit of the Internet and other media capabilities means members can't question candidates unless they run into them in the crew lounge. Which means...

2. At large airlines, very few pilots know the candidates or their positions on specific issues. Even as homogeneous as pilots tend to be, it's all about priorities and skills. Tough to determine when all you know is, "Been here 8-years. Flies the DC-9. Believes all pilots should be represented fairly." 'Kay...so who do you support for MEC Chairman? Do you like Block representation? etc.

3. Nominating part of the process is dumb. Paper ballots counted at LEC meetings that permit changed votes, but base the validity of membership on a management-generated roster that can be over a month old.

I've got another list of issues with how many we're choosing in the first place...but that's a tangent.

 

[Nevets]

Where to start!

1. ALPA, citing Dept of Labor "rules" doesn't permit campaigning via any ALPA-sponsored media. Direct mailing is allowed, but full benefit of the Internet and other media capabilities means members can't question candidates unless they run into them in the crew lounge. Which means...

2. At large airlines, very few pilots know the candidates or their positions on specific issues. Even as homogeneous as pilots tend to be, it's all about priorities and skills. Tough to determine when all you know is, "Been here 8-years. Flies the DC-9. Believes all pilots should be represented fairly." 'Kay...so who do you support for MEC Chairman? Do you like Block representation? etc.

3. Nominating part of the process is dumb. Paper ballots counted at LEC meetings that permit changed votes, but base the validity of membership on a management-generated roster that can be over a month old.

I've got another list of issues with how many we're choosing in the first place...but that's a tangent.

So its basically like the presidential election process.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

We should NOT confuse our service based economy with democracy.

Our service economy is designed for instant gratification, no waiting, and 100% satisfaction.

Democracy is slow, inconveinent and deliberate, with limited 100% guarantee or your money back.

Now, with that said, can the nomination/campaign process be better...... of course....

With internet voting and convienence should the particaption rate be 35%?

 

[waveflyer]

should the particaption rate be 35%?

Should it be? No- but by definition the pilots in this country are apathetic. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?
Do the leaders, paid by the membership, have ANY responsibilities to find that out and address it? Do you think your lambasting of pilots for their assumed lack of involvement helps? Isn't it more productive to find out the reasons for the apathy and attempt to address that instead of railing on us all as if ALL of us fit the mold? It's a crazy cycle right now- we complain about no leadership while you complain about lack of involvement...round and round. Who but a leader - again by definition- can stop that cycle? Even if it's not an elected rep- it'll take someone w/ leadership to address it- so i don't get the defensiveness.
It's unrealistic to think every pilot can or should be a leader or a tremendous giver of time. It takes momentum and a system that is capable of being followed... someone does have to set that up... i'm sorry that i'm learning (from you...) that it will take me and only me to set that up when our union has been around for over 75 years...

devils advocate:
isn't usapa doing exactly what you recommend?

You obviously have a passion for ALPA and are a good leader- you also have credibility b/c of how long you've been around- (something i don't) - my recommendation: check out some Organizational Behavior books, read up on worker bee apathy and start addressing it productively. Follow your own words. It's good advice- i've listened- you should too.

 

[Nevets]

Should it be? No- but by definition the pilots in this country are apathetic. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?
Do the leaders, paid by the membership, have ANY responsibilities to find that out and address it? Do you think your lambasting of pilots for their assumed lack of involvement helps? Isn't it more productive to find out the reasons for the apathy and attempt to address that instead of railing on us all as if ALL of us fit the mold? It's a crazy cycle right now- we complain about no leadership while you complain about lack of involvement...round and round. Who but a leader - again by definition- can stop that cycle? Even if it's not an elected rep- it'll take someone w/ leadership to address it- so i don't get the defensiveness.
It's unrealistic to think every pilot can or should be a leader or a tremendous giver of time. It takes momentum and a system that is capable of being followed... someone does have to set that up... i'm sorry that i'm learning (from you...) that it will take me and only me to set that up when our union has been around for over 75 years...

devils advocate:
isn't usapa doing exactly what you recommend?

You obviously have a passion for ALPA and are a good leader- you also have credibility b/c of how long you've been around- (something i don't) - my recommendation: check out some Organizational Behavior books, read up on worker bee apathy and start addressing it productively. Follow your own words. It's good advice- i've listened- you should too.

You can lead a horse to water but...


Anyways, the president of ALPA is the only one paid by our dues.

 

[vtech]

Anyways, the president of ALPA is the only one paid by our dues.

Where do the funds come from to pay all the other employees of ALPA if not from dues?

 

[Nevets]

Where do the funds come from to pay all the other employees of ALPA if not from dues?

He was talking about "the leaders." Staff are employees of ALPA paid by dues but they are not the elected leaders of ALPA. The only elected representative of ALPA who is an employee of ALPA and paid by dues is the president.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Should it be? No- but by definition the pilots in this country are apathetic. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

Because I think pilots do not establish realistic expectations of the career. Most people when thier expectations are not met react immediately.... most often negatively.

For example, if you don't want to get into a car accident then don't drive on the roads. Does one not accpet the consequences of a car accident if they drive? Not that it is thier fault or they deserved it, but is it reasonable to expect that car accidents happen on the highway?

Pilots, people really, need to manage thier expectations.

Do the leaders, paid by the membership, have ANY responsibilities to find that out and address it?

Let's be clear. there is only one ALPA leader paid by ALPA dues. And that salary is approved by the membership via delegate vote and democracy.

When I was an elected rep I had pilots calling me up asking me about "ALPA outrageousness". When I talk to them face to face.. the reply was... "oh I didn't know that".

See, its easy to come on FI and trash ALPA with no real names and monikers. The facts are the facts. And usually the ALPA bashers have rhetoric and emotional tirades. Pragmatic and workable solutions are rare.

Do you think your lambasting of pilots for their assumed lack of involvement helps? Isn't it more productive to find out the reasons for the apathy and attempt to address that instead of railing on us all as if ALL of us fit the mold?

Is there an excuse for not particapting? Is apathy a value? A characteristic? Is it even a principle? We define oursleves by our thoughts not our actions.

Plato: Those who refuse to particapte in politics will be governed by thier inferiors.


I mean at what point as democratic Americans do you get involved with your gov't? Coup? Revolution? Civil War? Economic Depression?

When waveflyer? When do you get involved? When its too late? After the toothpaste is out of the tube? After the horse is out of the barn?

The reason pilots are apathetic is because there expectations are not being met, they are unhappy, unsure of how to proceed, lacking political SA, and too proud.

No one told them that career effectiveness required extra work. Yet every profession has political representation on CapHill. Do you think this whole issue is exclusive to Air Line Pilots?

But lets be clear. This is no different from any other democratic volunteer organization. Professional Ass'ns, HOA's, Boy Scouts, Churches, Sports leagues... and our own local, state and fed gov't. All have low democratic particaption levels... why? It is not just ALPA....

The greatest democratic country in the world has minority particaption. It would seem we, as Americans, don't value democracy.... for the people, of the people and by the people...

It's a crazy cycle right now- we complain about no leadership while you complain about lack of involvement...round and round. Who but a leader - again by definition- can stop that cycle? Even if it's not an elected rep- it'll take someone w/ leadership to address it- so i don't get the defensiveness.

To understand the leadership/follwership cylce......
Followers actually become the leaders....
Followership is an easily forgotten study of human dynamics and relationships.

ALPA is set up for followers to function as leaders. With education, history, politcal effectiveness, resolutions and relationship building a follower can easily provide direction.

In addtion how do leaders become leaders? Where do leaders come from? Does a secret group select them? Do leaders in America use force to gain power?

So if democratic voting places leaders in position, who is responsible for placing them? and removing them? And guiding them? Directing them...

It's unrealistic to think every pilot can or should be a leader or a tremendous giver of time.

That is not being asked. What is being asked is 90 sec to vote in an LEC election. To read Flying the Line and other industry books. To not waste our volunteers time with 'ALPA National Officer compensation is excessive.... ' etc....

Do you want our ALPA volunteer to spend 60 mins explaining the democracy procedure for setting ALPA National salary or do we want him/her telling management that ALPA pilots will play management games.

It takes momentum and a system that is capable of being followed... someone does have to set that up... i'm sorry that i'm learning (from you...) that it will take me and only me to set that up when our union has been around for over 75 years...

devils advocate:
isn't usapa doing exactly what you recommend?

What are they really doing? What is their end game? USAPA is an emotional response. They are so pissed off they are ready to jump out of the life boat. Anything is better than ALPA. Maybe we will see.

You obviously have a passion for ALPA and are a good leader- you also have credibility b/c of how long you've been around- (something i don't) - my recommendation: check out some Organizational Behavior books, read up on worker bee apathy and start addressing it productively. Follow your own words. It's good advice- i've listened- you should too.

I have and will continue to do so.....

This is FI. Do most pilots come on here with an open mind? I post not to change the minds of Joey Merchant and tools like him... rather for every poster there is 10 lurkers... those who just read.

There are plenty of 20 something kids that log on. Guys like Joey Merchant are irresponsible, but he can't help it. Yet he negatively influences the young studs.. Most people when they join a new culture, survey the landscape to find out what is "right and wrong"... in a short period of time they engage the culture to blend in... adopting that cultures values, whether those values have morality or not.

That is one way the ALPA hate spreads... simply put... its cool and feels good to hate ALPA.




but it does not solve problems.




What is a volunteer with limited resources to do?

 

[dbchandler1]

Rez- I think you forgot to include your favorite chicken soup recipe in that last post.

 

[aircowboy]

ALPA will be as strong as we the members make it. This profession would be nowhere if it were not for many of our ALPA brethren fighting the good fight. Management gets off on tools like Joey merchant who do nothing but try and bring down ALPA and cause internal strife. Skywest management would welcome Joey with a smile and kiss and open arms to join the many there of similar mentality. I am one of the 900 who fought to bring ALPA on property and it made me sick to see so many who could care less about their profession.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez- I think you forgot to include your favorite chicken soup recipe in that last post.

Here you go.....

AmountIngredientPreparation8eachchicken thighsskinned, broiler/fryer type2eachcarrotscut in 1/8-inch slices2eachcelery stalkscut into 1/4inch slices2mediumturnippared, cubed1largeonionchopped8cupswater1/3teaspoonsalt1/4teaspoonblack pepper1/4teaspoonpoultry seasoning1/8teaspoonthyme1cupnoodlesegg, wide
Directions

Put the thighs in a large sauce pan or Dutch oven.

Layer the carrots, celery, turnips and onion over the chicken.

Add water, salt, pepper, poultry seasoning and thyme.

Cook, covered, over medium heat until mixture boils.

Reduce heat and simmer for about 45 minutes or until the
vegetables and chicken are both fork tender.

Remove chicken; cool.

Remove the chicken meat from the bones; discard the bones.

Cut chicken into bite-sized pieces.

Heat mixture to boiling; stir in the noodles.

Cook, uncovered, for 5 to 7 minutes or until the noodles are
done.

Stir the chicken back into the soup - simmer for two minutes,
and serve.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I am one of the 900 who fought to bring ALPA on property and

It is shameful we had to "fight"

it made me sick to see so many who could care less about their profession.

Yet they expect the profession to care about them....

 

[BigLebowski]

ALPA is a failure and the constant attacks on the company that I now work for are getting old.... Skywest now owns ASA, and if I have to choose between ALPA or Skywest......I will support Skywest.....

Until ALPA can get a hold of the whipsaw problem within a portfolio....I have to look out for number one.....and that ain't you......

You ALPA cheerleaders want to blame everything on Republicans and Skywest.....rather than look in the mirror.....

well said.