CS announcement??

[bailout]

ok, whats up? Something new going on there?

 

[XTW]

Moving away from "merit based" system to a seniority list.


X

 

[gc3059]

Great, now we need a change in the base policy and I for one would be happy.

 

[C680]

Great, now we need a change in the base policy and I for one would be happy.

What, no pay raise required for that? Next there will be a schedule change.

You still need a strong unity. Send 'em in.

 

[RCA]

What, no pay raise required for that? Next there will be a schedule change.

You still need a strong unity. Send 'em in.

You need to stop telling me what I need.

 

[Jetz]

You need to stop telling me what I need.

Amen.

 

[xpdriver]

You need to stop telling me what I need.

He doesn't think you have figured it out yet!!

Have you?(1108)

 

[RCA]

He doesn't think you have figured it out yet!!

Have you?(1108)

D

I suryely don't have IT figured out. Do you?


Good Luck

 

[flagshipper]

ok basically we are going to a seniority system and the cp has already said there will be no demotion of CAPTs to FOs to balance it out. So I guess it will just mean a longer upgrade for FOs. Also our equipment lock policy is verbatim from the NJ CBA with 39 month seat lock but don't forget "we do not make business decisions based on what others are doing in the industry" (sorry couldnt resist). Also it said there MAY BE some scheduling variants introduced to complement the current 7/7 schedule. I see 9on5off in the future for new hires. Basically it was 4 pages of nothing but at first glance the switch to seniority is nice vs a long career of butt kissing but I guess we will see. Oh yean and my card is still in.

 

[SteelerMan]

Only a 39 month seat lock, plus what you have left as an fo when you upgrade. I think I feel a union coming to CS.

 

[flagshipper]

They left out the main part. Once I saw this memo I flipped through looking for a pay chart and didnt see one. Upgrades could push up to 4 years plus now taking away from one of the very small advantages CS had over NJ. By my guess we have about 225 active line captains versus about 140 Fos so if all upgrades are stopped until there is a balance 85 Capts woud need to leave in order for there to be upgrades again. At a guess of an attrition rate of maybe at most 9 a month it will be another 10 months before there would be any need of a new captain. So assuming an unlikely attrition of 9 a month upgrade would be over 3 years all ready but I would say 5 or 6 is a much more likely rate which makes for a 4 year upgrade assuming zero growth. Throw 5 planes a year net growth into the mix and that knock a year off upgrade at the most. I say all this because the FO pay scale is built around a quick upgrade because the pay goes from 40 to 45 to 50 then flattens out severely with only 1,250 a year after that.

 

[blueridge71]

[/So I guess it will just mean a longer upgrade for FOs.QUOTE]

Whoopee. Where did I put that NJA app?

Card in.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Why would CS change their PIC/SIC staffing ratio because of this?

 

[flagshipper]

the seniority system gives them a legitimate excuse to hold off on upgrades saving them a lot of money. There are two year FOs at this company who have gotten 3 type ratings so the equipment lock fixes this problem.

 

[bailout]

Maybe so, but at least now it will be a FAIR way of upgrading and knowing where you stand in line, as opposed to who worked more O/T to get an upgrade quicker.

 

[johnsonrod]

I guess CS will need to re-do the corporate video below that extols the virtues of a fully "merit-based" system...

http://www.citationshares.com/about/video.aspx

 

[RCA]

Anything else you would like to ASSume flagshipper?

They left out the main part. Once I saw this memo I flipped through looking for a pay chart and didnt see one. Upgrades could push up to 4 years plus now taking away from one of the very small advantages CS had over NJ. By my guess we have about 225 active line captains versus about 140 Fos so if all upgrades are stopped until there is a balance 85 Capts woud need to leave in order for there to be upgrades again. At a guess of an attrition rate of maybe at most 9 a month it will be another 10 months before there would be any need of a new captain. So assuming an unlikely attrition of 9 a month upgrade would be over 3 years all ready but I would say 5 or 6 is a much more likely rate which makes for a 4 year upgrade assuming zero growth. Throw 5 planes a year net growth into the mix and that knock a year off upgrade at the most. I say all this because the FO pay scale is built around a quick upgrade because the pay goes from 40 to 45 to 50 then flattens out severely with only 1,250 a year after that.

 

[RTRHD]

Anything else you would like to ASSume flagshipper?

I so hate to say this. But because of the union that we don't have. Every time I turn around they keep paying me more. So I don't know..........

 

[flagshipper]

Yeah that post was a lot of ASSumption. I for one am happy about the seniority system so at least I will know where I stand when it comes time to make my NJ decision hopefully. RCA, Upgrade times are always a guess. It could be a year for new hires or we could be furloughed tomorrow. I am simply throwing some numbers out there for people who are considering coming here and are being told 2 to 2.5 years for upgrade. They deserve to know the truth. Also this entire new memo was made without any input from the pilot group by way of a focus group or even input from the round table meetings. That is a little disconcerning. For a company that openly states they want no union on the property they do make some irresponsible decisions that don't help their cause.

 

[OHGOON]

No sense in argueing with RCA, he has made up his mind without any facts. It is all knee jerk reaction sans any common sense. He is a lost cause.

I think in his case the R in RCA stands for RETARDED!

 

[SKYLAWYER]

I guess CS will need to re-do the corporate video below that extols the virtues of a fully "merit-based" system...

http://www.citationshares.com/about/video.aspx

Just watched it and now realize than on FEB 1st I will become mediocre.

 

[RCA]

Just watched it and now realize than on FEB 1st I will become mediocre.

On that not I'll gladly send my union card in. If we are going to act like we are unionized we might just as well have a union.

How's that for union support OHGOON?

 

[OHGOON]

On that not I'll gladly send my union card in. If we are going to act like we are unionized we might just as well have a union.

How's that for union support OHGOON?

You're a trailblazer and a force to be reckoned with.

 

[WheresRocky]

So what else is up over there? Anything new on the horizon. Rumors are buzzing all over about an upcoming announcement.

 

[xpdriver]

D

I suryely don't have IT figured out. Do you?


Good Luck

First you need to learn how to spell (surely).

And yes I have it figured out! It's all in the card you send in..

 

[Fozzy]

Rumblings from the FBO

What is the word on attrition? Heard the other day FO's are punching out of CS at a pretty good rate. Was told NJA picked up 7 of your FO's just recently.
That is pretty good percentage in one pop!
Many guys are getting on the Union train and getting pissed.
Management is getting annoyed with the situation. Guess they are regretting all that "best paid in the biz" talk. It is easy to talk big until it comes time to pay up. :laugh:
Was told your CEO said something to the effect, "Why is it I have to respond every time RTS farts." (Read IBB):crying: Classy. Guess he is feeling the heat.

 

[N7167L]

'New-Hire' Info?

What is the word on attrition? Heard the other day FO's are punching out of CS at a pretty good rate....

I am interested in CS and would like to learn more...

1) How is the QoL? (long sits at the FBO?)
2) Is there a training contract to sign?
3) What is the monthly cost for family insurance?

Thanks!

 

[Sparse]

I am interested in CS and would like to learn more...

1) How is the QoL? (long sits at the FBO?)
2) Is there a training contract to sign?
3) What is the monthly cost for family insurance?

Thanks!

1. I have not had long sits. Some have but I don't think it is every day.

2. You have to sign a note that expires after 12 months.

3. It depends. The PPO is the most expensive and it is around 400 per month for a family. The HMO is less. The PPO covers health, dental, vision and prescription drugs. It has pretty standard co-pays and deductables.

Bottom line is if you can go to NJ, then go. If not, CS is not a bad alternative. Just being truthful.

 

[flagshipper]

I am interested in CS and would like to learn more...

1) How is the QoL? (long sits at the FBO?)
2) Is there a training contract to sign?
3) What is the monthly cost for family insurance?

Thanks!

Sparse pretty much hit the nail on the head.
1. They have started a new unofficial policy where you sit appx 2 hours of airport standby before your first leg. Not horrible but really annoying when you are on min rest. They say it is in case the owners show up early but I have never found myself rushed with the normal 1 hour prior show time of course some guys take a little longer than others. But if the owners show up that early then they know there is a chance they will have to wait or a plane may not even be there yet.
2. Like Sparse said 1 year non pro-rated training contract with a 39 month equipment lock now.
3. Insurance is pretty standard but went up a fair amount for 08 and will probably continue to go up every year (until the cards are sent in). I would try NJ and the Flex and then come here if neither of those work out. Just my opinion.

 

[blueridge71]

I have been getting a lot of sit time over the last couple of months. I think that it is worse in some fleets than others.

I'm not sure if the worst was when we were supposed to go out 8 hours early or when the company forgot we were on standby at the airport recently.

2-3 hours of standby before a flight seems fairly typical lately.