CHQ, FREEDOM, and ASA pilots need to stick together on this!!

[pdub20s]

Got a email today about a change in flight benefits. WE(all the above) now have to pay to "non-rev" on delta. $5 + .007 per mile one-way($11 from MCO-JFK). i know its not a lot, but that bull********************. IF they are looking for a way to "nickel and dime" then delta is going about it allll wrong. We need to stand up and complain to MGT about this and maybe delta will listen if ASA, Freedom, and CHQ all agree that it is unfair.... And if nothing is done, then we'll have to use the power of the pen(write-ups) and follow suit with United pilots until Delta gets the hint.

 

[jumppilot]

Just jumpseat.

 

[pdub20s]

Just jumpseat.

that very true, but its the principal. We make them money, and in the process they want us to pay to travel on them. do you see what is wrong with that?

 

[Noise]

Got a email today about a change in flight benefits. WE(all the above) now have to pay to "non-rev" on delta. $5 + .007 per mile one-way($11 from MCO-JFK). i know its not a lot, but that bull********************.

That is less than us at ASA are supposedly going to be charged. We have been told $5 per segment plus .01 per mile. I know that it isn't that large of a difference, but it's the principal of it. Now when they are going to start charging is up in the air, since it has been delayed 2 times already.

 

[CJA]

Just hang in there for a while boys and General Lee will be over here with a message explaining why it is fair for you to have to pay to ride on Delta and why you shouldn't even be flying regional jets. Probably has something to do with a way to fund his retirement.

 

[General Lee]

Just hang in there for a while boys and General Lee will be over here with a message explaining why it is fair for you to have to pay to ride on Delta and why you shouldn't even be flying regional jets. Probably has something to do with a way to fund his retirement.

First of all, I hope all of you come ride our jumpseats. If a Delta guy is on it, we still are allowed to sit on the flight attendant jumpseat as long as one of them isn't in it. Next, don't think YOU are making us money while flying RJs. They are actually hurting us right now. It is not your fault, but rather the guy who decided to add so many to our armada. That would be Fred Reid, who thought "frequency" is what the businessman wanted, not comfort. Yes, Dalpa also made the mistake of allowing so many in the first place, but once it started, it never stopped.

So, please come sit on our free jumpseat. Good luck.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

that very true, but its the principal.

Edward Rooney?

 

[buscap]

First of all, I hope all of you come ride our jumpseats. If a Delta guy is on it, we still are allowed to sit on the flight attendant jumpseat as long as one of them isn't in it. Next, don't think YOU are making us money while flying RJs. They are actually hurting us right now. It is not your fault, but rather the guy who decided to add so many to our armada. That would be Fred Reid, who thought "frequency" is what the businessman wanted, not comfort. Yes, Dalpa also made the mistake of allowing so many in the first place, but once it started, it never stopped.

So, please come sit on our free jumpseat. Good luck.

I got news for ya. Delta has been charging us to use your jumpseat.

 

[PCL_128]

that very true, but its the principal. We make them money, and in the process they want us to pay to travel on them. do you see what is wrong with that?

Plenty of regional carriers have to pay to nonrev on their mainline partners. All of NWA's feeder carriers have to pay to nonrev on mainline Northwest. Does it suck? Of course, but it's not that unheard of.

 

[General Lee]

I got news for ya. Delta has been charging us to use your jumpseat.

Every Delta employee or DCI employee has to pay $50 a year for passes. I guess I am paying for my jumpseat too...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CJA]

Dumb question here but does Delta mainline have to pay to ride on ASA, CHQ, & Freedom.(other than the $50/year) If so, what's the complaint? You're separate companies and you can't complain about getting a cheap ride on somebody else.

 

[Noise]

Plenty of regional carriers have to pay to nonrev on their mainline partners. All of NWA's feeder carriers have to pay to nonrev on mainline Northwest. Does it suck? Of course, but it's not that unheard of.

I may be wrong, but doesn't 9E ride for free on NW these days?? I am aware that you have to pay if you list for first class, however, my friends over there tell me that it is free to list and fly in Y class.

 

[brokedash]

It is wrong to pay for non-rev when your the employee of airline and you get stiffed to enjoy what is supposed to be a benefit. You already did your job to help the company, the least they could do is offer a free ride to you as non-rev.

United recently revised its non-rev policy where there is no longer a charge to fly coach as non rev.

Airways allows you to fly free and as a non rev in either class on domestic flights.

Not suprised to hear Northwest takes the employee's pay check back to non-rev. Sounds like a typical NW
f--- the peons mentality.

The only time you should pay if non reving is ID-90/ZED fare

 

[doug_or]

Just jumpseat.

When jumpseating you will go to the back of the line. Fine if you can get the actual, but if a mainline guy grabs that you go behind the family on buddy passes for a seat in the back.

 

[Minimaniac]

Non- revenue travel means NO revenue generated. This is a real pile of dookie.

If DAL wants to charge me, I am going to fly slower while at work to generate the necessary cash flow to offset their new program. Management never seems to learn that we can make our money back, and that in the end they can at best break even on an idea.

I know regional wages are low, and yes I agreed to work for them, but there were certain benefits that when combined with pay made for an acceptable overall package for someone of my level of experience. If DAL takes away my fringe bennies, I am going to have to increase my compensation package as I see fit. Who knows, fly slow enough (I mean save fuel enough), and I just may be able to treat my family to a positive space adventure once in a while, on Delta's dime. Jerks.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Mini:

Smart... You intend to fly off plan to try to make extra money while harming 73 other people, plus downline folks who just want to remain on schedule? Good judgement there - putting yourself first - Captain. Hope you mention your philosophy next time you interview.

I agree that this change in non rev benefits is not a good thing, for the very reason that it lowers morale amongst Delta's subcontractors' employees. What you do not realize at your profitable alter ego is that Delta is having a heck of a time trying to figure out how to continue operations with fuel approaching $3.00 a gallon.

Just think, how happy would you be if you took a 57% pay cut? When you board your Delta flight consider what those guys put up with and yet, they still are performing professionally. With 3,500 hours I would consider myself prety darned lucky to be flying your E170 in Delta colors and if this is the worst form of abuse you have to put up with, you are really fortunate.

Look for your alternatives:
(1) Your airline flies for multiple carriers
(2) You can JS for free and DAL has multiple JS
(3) Can't you fly on your own airline for free?
(4) If these passes are owed to you, get together with your pilot buddies and bring a breach of contract claim. (oh, or is it that these were never really yours to begin with?)

 

[737 Pylt]

Mini:

Smart... You intend to fly off plan to try to make extra money while harming 73 other people, plus downline folks who just want to remain on schedule? Good judgement there - putting yourself first - Captain. Hope you mention your philosophy next time you interview.

By the way, how happy would you be if you took a 57% pay cut? When you board your Delta flight consider what those guys put up with and yet, they still are performing professionally. With 3,500 hours I would consider myself prety darned lucky to be flying your E170 in Delta colors and if this is the worst form of abuse you have to put up with, you are really fortunate.

Look for your alternatives:
(1) Your airline flies for multiple carriers
(2) You can JS for free and DAL has multiple JS
(3) Can't you fly on your own airline for free?

Be careful fins, you're treading on thin ice. Before you know it, some of your former co workers on here will be calling you some of those "colorful metaphores" used to describe those evil delta pilots!
But with this guy, I'd say its not surprising! I wonder how he feels about having to pay to fly on the other legacy airlines that his compay whore's itself out to fly code for?

737

 

[PCL_128]

Mini:

Smart... You intend to fly off plan to try to make extra money while harming 73 other people, plus downline folks who just want to remain on schedule? Good judgement there - putting yourself first - Captain. Hope you mention your philosophy next time you interview.

I agree that this change in non rev benefits is not a good thing, for the very reason that it lowers morale amongst Delta's subcontractors' employees. What you do not realize at your profitable alter ego is that Delta is having a heck of a time trying to figure out how to continue operations with fuel approaching $3.00 a gallon.

Just think, how happy would you be if you took a 57% pay cut? When you board your Delta flight consider what those guys put up with and yet, they still are performing professionally. With 3,500 hours I would consider myself prety darned lucky to be flying your E170 in Delta colors and if this is the worst form of abuse you have to put up with, you are really fortunate.

Look for your alternatives:
(1) Your airline flies for multiple carriers
(2) You can JS for free and DAL has multiple JS
(3) Can't you fly on your own airline for free?
(4) If these passes are owed to you, get together with your pilot buddies and bring a breach of contract claim. (oh, or is it that these were never really yours to begin with?)

Who are you, and what did you do with the real Fins?

 

[DrewBlows]

Plenty of regional carriers have to pay to nonrev on their mainline partners. All of NWA's feeder carriers have to pay to nonrev on mainline Northwest. Does it suck? Of course, but it's not that unheard of.

Compass employees don't pay to fly on NWA (except in first class, but there are never any seats anyway). I can't speak for Mesaba or Pinnacle, but I think they have the same deal.

 

[PCL_128]

Compass employees don't pay to fly on NWA (except in first class, but there are never any seats anyway). I can't speak for Mesaba or Pinnacle, but I think they have the same deal.

True. It was changing just as I was leaving PCL. Until early last year, the only people that got free pass travel at the feeders were the guys with over 5 years of seniority. Everyone else had to pay.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Why is the rally cry around here seem to be, "everybody else has crappy benefits, so should you."

Delta used to have the best non-rev benefits in the industry until recently, and fortunately the DCI carriers were able to have those as well.

Now it seems that the company is once again turning to its employees to help the bottom line.

It's really sad what the industry is eroding to, and even more som how some of you can be ok with it.

 

[DrewBlows]

Dumb question here but does Delta mainline have to pay to ride on ASA, CHQ, & Freedom.(other than the $50/year) If so, what's the complaint? You're separate companies and you can't complain about getting a cheap ride on somebody else.

Delta and Comair don't pay to fly on any aircraft that says 'Delta' on the side (except the $50 already mentioned).

Charging DCI employees is just an easy way to attempt to make a few bucks on the backs of employees (what's new?). Delta, or any other American carrier save for SWA, don't have creative people at the helm. Instead of trying to figure out ways to create revenue (shorter turn times, more efficient baggage handling, working with the FAA for shorter taxi times/ more direct routes, etc.), they take more from the employees. Unfortunately bean counters don't account for losses in productivity when they take things away from employees. In their mind a "good" employee would continue to do the same quality of work as they did before the cuts. In the real world though, productivity decreases when compensation decreases. If I had to guess I'd say productivity decreases inversely exponentially when pay and/or benefits are decreased.

 

[buscap]

Every Delta employee or DCI employee has to pay $50 a year for passes. I guess I am paying for my jumpseat too...

Bye Bye--General Lee

Listen up.

Jumpseating falls way outside the nonrevenue travel arena.

Delta pilots are not being charged to jumpseat on ASA.

ASA pilots are being charged to jumpseat on Delta.

Not fair. Not the way it should be. We have always worked fairly with the Delta pilots. I would suggest you do what you can to address this with your jumpseat coordinator before feelings get hurt.

It's been bad enough putting up with Airtan's bullcrap all these years without retaliation, but then again, we never helped them out during a furlough.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I thought the alleged charge to an ASA pilot on a DL flight was a gate / software error having to do with the PPR number. If this is not the case, PM me and I will follow up. I need dates, places, flights, all the details possible. You are correct, there should be NO charge for the JS.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Who are you, and what did you do with the real Fins?

I always argued in favor of the profession and professionalism. Taking our woes out on passengers does not help our cause. We get paid to fly someone else's airplanes safely, efficiently, and by the rules. If we have a beef with management I'm all for meeting them at the Courthouse, or the picket line; but the front line of the battle will not be some poor passenger just trying to get home on a ticket they paid for.

The old one list & brand scope war, which I lost, would have solved these minor non rev issues.

Besides, AirTran is a tough competitor. I see your angle

 

[JoeMerchant]

I always argued in favor of the profession and professionalism. Taking your woes out on your passengers does not help our cause.

Operating by the book does work to effect change..... The PAX's are Delta passengers, not ASA passengers.... and they want cheap tickets and first class services..... They are part of the problem....

You seem very protective of Delta..... as am I of Skywest/ASA.... This is why ALPA will never unify under the current paradigm.....We are looking at all of these issues through our own vantage point.....

Delta employees don't pay to ride on us, but we have to pay to ride on them..... That is not fair, and neither your company, nor your MEC care.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe - I care & most of our pilots care also. But after taking a 50+% pay cut, and also getting whacked with the same fee for pass renewal, they don't care as much as you do. Lets balance this out, for you a 50% cut would be in the neighborhood of $45,000 to $50,000 GULP!

I agree it is not fair and I don't even think it is smart - seeing as how $3.00 a gallon fuel and not much accountability makes keeping the troops happy just that much more financially relevant.

Just curious, how much does this new fee cost a commuter like you? How big a deal is this? By my calculations it less than our daily Starbucks allowance, am I way off?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Operating by the book does work to effect change..... The PAX's are Delta passengers, not ASA passengers.... and they want cheap tickets and first class services..... They are part of the problem....

So we get rid of all those pesky passengers? Can we let AirTran try this strategy first?

You are correct that in a fee for departure world under a bankruptcy proof contract, passengers are just a headache.

This disconnect is yet another of the myriad of reasons why airlines should not outsource flying. We should not be on separate teams, with separate goals.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Joe - I care & most of our pilots care also. But after taking a 50+% pay cut, and also getting whacked with the same fee for pass renewal, they don't care as much as you do. Lets balance this out, for you a 50% cut would be in the neighborhood of $45,000 to $50,000 GULP!

I agree it is not fair and I don't even think it is smart - seeing as how $3.00 a gallon fuel and not much accountability makes keeping the troops happy just that much more financially relevant.

Just curious, how much does this new fee cost a commuter like you? How big a deal is this? By my calculations it less than our daily Starbucks allowance, am I way off?

WHO took a 50% paycut? You haven't even been at Delta a year, you weren't there for the bk! As for your paycut going from ASA to Delta, you made the choice.

It's amazing how much you've changed. For one of the biggest RJDC supporters to become a double breasted jerk so fast, they must have some serious brainwashing going on over there.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe - I care & most of our pilots care also. But after taking a 50+% pay cut, and also getting whacked with the same fee for pass renewal, they don't care as much as you do. Lets balance this out, for you a 50% cut would be in the neighborhood of $45,000 to $50,000 GULP!

Most of your pilots probably don't even know, much less care..... As you pointed out, they are more concerned with their paycuts and loss of retirement..... The paycut at the mainline is a reason you won't see my application at any of the "legacy" carriers..... I'm not going to take a huge paycut....

Just curious, how much does this new fee cost a commuter like you? How big a deal is this? By my calculations it less than our daily Starbucks allowance, am I way off?

It doesn't matter my good friend.... It is the principle of the matter..... You don't have to pay to ride on my aircraft, but I have to pay to ride on your aircraft.... To continue your pay analogy.... How does it make sense that an ASA FO making 20K has to pay on Delta, while a Delta captain making 150K gets a free ride on ASA? It doesn't make sense and you would be singing a different tune if you were still living on the other side of the tracks.....