Merger affect on AirTran.......

[Max Powers]

Will Delta divest a considerable amount of their flying allowing Airtran to come in and pick up some scraps?

Or will Delta's new merged synergies make them stronger; so much so they can weaken Airtran?

Any thoughts?

 

[jke406]

Will Delta divest a considerable amount of their flying allowing Airtran to come in and pick up some scraps?

Or will Delta's new merged synergies make them stronger; so much so they can weaken Airtran?

Any thoughts?

I can't imagine a company partaking in an acquisition that would make it weaker against the competition.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta will sell MidWest to Uncle Joe.

 

[737 Pylt]

Delta will sell MidWest to Uncle Joe.

I thought Uncle Joe was retiring?

737

 

[maxblast72]

I would imagine Airtran would be lobbying the DOJ to required a Delta/NW or Delta/UA to be accompanied by the releasing of some slots in NY and DC area. It seems like anytime slots in LGA or DCA become available, Airtran is in the middle of the bidding (ie. like the former ATA slots we just picked up).

I can't imagine Delta giving up any gates in ATL (although the NW gates on D could come available for Airtran to pick up).

 

[Jmoney]

Pan Am....

I can't imagine a company partaking in an acquisition that would make it weaker against the competition.

Did buying those old Pan Am routes make DAL stronger? I think not..... Mergers are not always good either-these things are impossible to predict.

BTW-Dal's purchase of these routes durn near bankrupted Delta back in the mid 90's (and there was nowhere near the labor strife a Northwest mergrer could cause.)

 

[FlyAirtran]

A merger would reduce capacity in both Delta and the other carriers hubs and Airtran would benefit. For example in Atlanta if Northwest or United were to merge with Delta the justice dept would make them give up those 3-5 gates in Atlanta and Airtran would most likely get them and do more expansion.

This is of course just my opinion.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I was just joking about DL selling a NWA asset, anyway Joe has been seen at the Home Depot.

Did buying those old Pan Am routes make DAL stronger? I think not....

It can be debated whether Delta paid too much, but yes, the Pan Am deal did increase Delta's international operation, making the Company stronger.

Delta's Executives have repeated that they will merge only if it benefits Delta's growth. Delta has no plans to spend money to make anything shrink.

 

[General Lee]

Will Delta divest a considerable amount of their flying allowing Airtran to come in and pick up some scraps?

Or will Delta's new merged synergies make them stronger; so much so they can weaken Airtran?

Any thoughts?

HUH????? If Delta merged or bought NWA, why would they give up anything? No overlap between the two, and maybe a possible downsizing of MEM or CVG, both of which have very little O&D traffic. If DAL and NWA combine, then CAL and UAL are rumored to merge too. And don't forget what Southwest said about not being left behind in a merger frenzy. They may gobble up Airtran or go for Alaska. Nobody knows until someone actually makes the first move.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Did buying those old Pan Am routes make DAL stronger? I think not..... Mergers are not always good either-these things are impossible to predict.

BTW-Dal's purchase of these routes durn near bankrupted Delta back in the mid 90's (and there was nowhere near the labor strife a Northwest mergrer could cause.)

Ron Allen was the CEO back then and he overpaid for those routes when he bought them, although now they are worth gold. NWA has a great Asian presence with a large NRT hub. Also, I think most of the NWA employees would WISH FOR a new management team than their current one, and Delta would provide that. Most of the NWA employees want Steenland out.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I would imagine Airtran would be lobbying the DOJ to required a Delta/NW or Delta/UA to be accompanied by the releasing of some slots in NY and DC area. It seems like anytime slots in LGA or DCA become available, Airtran is in the middle of the bidding (ie. like the former ATA slots we just picked up).

I can't imagine Delta giving up any gates in ATL (although the NW gates on D could come available for Airtran to pick up).

I doubt that. All of NWA's current slots at LGA and DCA only go to their (NWA's) hubs, and those hubs would not be going anywhere in a merger. If they had duplicate flights to the same cities from LGA and DCA, then maybe. If they don't go to the same cities, then they would keep those flights going to MSP, DTW, MEM, and IND.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Max Powers]

Delta's Executives have repeated that they will merge only if it benefits Delta's growth. Delta has no plans to spend money to make anything shrink.

And Executives never lie.....Seriously are you that naive? Mergers or Buy hope to accomplish one thing; GROWING their revenue stream. They do this by shrinking flights and jacking up the price i.e. US airways. So the "GROWTH" your executives talk about is not Fleet size but Profit or revenue growth.

But the senior union members will agree to it because they are already captains and only care about the possibility of increased pay.

 

[Max Powers]

HUH????? If Delta merged or bought NWA, why would they give up anything? No overlap between the two, and maybe a possible downsizing of MEM or CVG, both of which have very little O&D traffic. If DAL and NWA combine, then CAL and UAL are rumored to merge too. And don't forget what Southwest said about not being left behind in a merger frenzy. They may gobble up Airtran or go for Alaska. Nobody knows until someone actually makes the first move.

Bye Bye--General Lee

God your such a tool GL. I'm just asking a question and it looks like you agree. "MEM or CVG downsizing" you can bet airtran which has record loads out of there and added destinations would ramp up operations there.

Thanks for the input...you freaking tool

 

[General Lee]

God your such a tool GL. I'm just asking a question and it looks like you agree. "MEM or CVG downsizing" you can bet airtran which has record loads out of there and added destinations would ramp up operations there.

Thanks for the input...you freaking tool

You cannot accept that I am right. It kills you. There is NO WAY Delta and NWA would completely leave any of their hubs, knowing guys like Airtran and Southwest are out there looking for any opportunity. They may take away a few flights, and make them focus cities, but not leave the hubs, thanks to local political pressures too---most politicians want INTL flights to their cities---not just LCCs. Wake up, and actually add something of substance. Airtran has RECORD loads out of MEM? HUH???? Well, ok then? Can you back that up? Have they added any new service out of MEM of substance? Frontier has recently (LAS, MCO, CUN), but not Airtran. Come on dude, debate already and use facts.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

And Executives never lie.....Seriously are you that naive? Mergers or Buy hope to accomplish one thing; GROWING their revenue stream. They do this by shrinking flights and jacking up the price i.e. US airways. So the "GROWTH" your executives talk about is not Fleet size but Profit or revenue growth.

But the senior union members will agree to it because they are already captains and only care about the possibility of increased pay.

Has USAir actually shrunk since their merger? They have? Where? PIT? That was a dying hub even before they merged. Since then they have added more flights out of PHL (to Europe), PHX (to Hawaii), and they are getting new E190s to replace a lot of their older 733s. They are adding A340s to go to China next year, and they just got 2 flights (4 slots) to LHR. They did not furlough any pilots as a result of their merger, and have called back many.

There will not be a merger allowed (by politicians) if there could be large layoffs or hub closures. That was shown with the USAir/Delta debacle. That was supported by Wall St and hedge funds, but turned down by the Gov't, even before it got to the DOJ. Any mergers will have to be seemless.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MJ42]

There will not be a merger allowed (by politicians) if there could be large layoffs or hub closures. That was shown with the USAir/Delta debacle. That was supported by Wall St and hedge funds, but turned down by the Gov't, even before it got to the DOJ. Any mergers will have to be seemless.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hope that also holds true for those of us with class dates at DAL and NWA!

 

[Max Powers]

You cannot accept that I am right. It kills you. There is NO WAY Delta and NWA would completely leave any of their hubs, knowing guys like Airtran and Southwest are out there looking for any opportunity. They may take away a few flights, and make them focus cities, but not leave the hubs, thanks to local political pressures too---most politicians want INTL flights to their cities---not just LCCs. Wake up, and actually add something of substance. Airtran has RECORD loads out of MEM? HUH???? Well, ok then? Can you back that up? Have they added any new service out of MEM of substance? Frontier has recently (LAS, MCO, CUN), but not Airtran. Come on dude, debate already and use facts.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I'm at a total loss. Let me try to respond to your nonsense. Ok I agree with you Delta will drop flights out of Mem and CVG and Airtran and others will pick up the scraps. I have never said your going to vacate Your ATL or DTW hubs.

what are you arguing about here again????

If your married may god help that thing you call a wife - she must of been a piece of work to have to settle for you. Your freaking hilarious one of DELTA's finest. I have lots of friends over there so I know your not the norm....thank goodness.

 

[Max Powers]

Has USAir actually shrunk since their merger? They have? Where? PIT? That was a dying hub even before they merged. Since then they have added more flights out of PHL (to Europe), PHX (to Hawaii), and they are getting new E190s to replace a lot of their older 733s. They are adding A340s to go to China next year, and they just got 2 flights (4 slots) to LHR. They did not furlough any pilots as a result of their merger, and have called back many.

There will not be a merger allowed (by politicians) if there could be large layoffs or hub closures. That was shown with the USAir/Delta debacle. That was supported by Wall St and hedge funds, but turned down by the Gov't, even before it got to the DOJ. Any mergers will have to be seemless.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Ok once again what are you disagreeing with???? I have no arguments with what you said...I differ on one item ----"seemless" is in the eye of the beholder. For instance a new hire who is stuck on reserve for the next 7 years might not agree it was "seemless"

I also Disagree I think it is spelled Seamless

Bye Bye TOOL

 

[Jmoney]

You misunderstand.....

Ok once again what are you disagreeing with???? I have no arguments with what you said...I differ on one item ----"seemless" is in the eye of the beholder. For instance a new hire who is stuck on reserve for the next 7 years might not agree it was "seemless"

I also Disagree I think it is spelled Seamless

Bye Bye TOOL

I think you may be laboring under the false assumption that you are dealing with a rational person here.

General Lee is about as far from rational as one can get. He hijacks thread after thread to toot HIS (not Delta's) horn. He is not interested in the industry, he is not interested in the airline he or anyone else flies for. The General is a sad, pathetic little person who comes here many times each day to attempt to make himself feel better about his sad little life by attempting to belittle everyone else. And woe to any female (or male for that matter) who would be foolish enough to enter into a relationship with this noob.

You are right, there are many good people at DAL. I know several personally. I agree that the general is certainly the exception in my experience and represents himself and DAL very poorly. It is clear that the General has some problems which should be addressed by a competent professional.

Also, you are correct, the General cannot spell. He can fly around in his big plane and crow to the moon all night, but he still cannot spell words like "seamless."

-You are a complete toolkit, General!

 

[Max Powers]

Yea, no matter how good the company there is always one toolkit....

 

[Eagle757shark]

I'm at a total loss. Let me try to respond to your nonsense. Ok I agree with you Delta will drop flights out of Mem and CVG and Airtran and others will pick up the scraps. I have never said your going to vacate Your ATL or DTW hubs.

what are you arguing about here again????

If your married may god help that thing you call a wife - she must of been a piece of work to have to settle for you. Your freaking hilarious one of DELTA's finest. I have lots of friends over there so I know your not the norm....thank goodness.

Max, if Delta and Northwest were to merge and they dropped flights in MEM and CVG, I doubt you would see AirTran go into these cities with any major presence. Sorry, but it is not AirTran's style. Look at their history. They would nickel and dime with 3 to 4 gates and connect a few dots but you wouldn't see major expansion. AirTran has a history of this. However, you'd probable see Southwest and Jetblue move into MEM and CVG and just expand like gangbusters. AirTran is just to cautious. I guess it has worked out for AirTran to this point, but we shall see in the future.

 

[PCL_128]

General, I'm not going to be a di-- like some of the other people that have responded to you, but I think you're engaging in a little wishful thinking here. I think it's a good bet that the DOJ would insist on DAL and NWA giving up at least a few gates and slots in ATL, LGA, DCA, and some other cities. Politicians and the DOJ will insist on the appearance of improving "choice" and "competition" for the consumer. The creation of the largest airline in the world by combining NWA and DAL will create an impression of a massive reduction in competition that benefits the consumer, so the government will want some token gestures to show to the public. That means giving up gates and slots to competitors. It wouldn't be a massive sale of gates and slots, but you wouldn't be able to hold on to absolutely everything. I don't think any furloughs or downsizing would result, as resources would just be moved to other markets, but I think you're dreaming if you believe that you'll be able to hold on to everything in the big markets.

 

[General Lee]

General, I'm not going to be a di-- like some of the other people that have responded to you, but I think you're engaging in a little wishful thinking here. I think it's a good bet that the DOJ would insist on DAL and NWA giving up at least a few gates and slots in ATL, LGA, DCA, and some other cities. Politicians and the DOJ will insist on the appearance of improving "choice" and "competition" for the consumer. The creation of the largest airline in the world by combining NWA and DAL will create an impression of a massive reduction in competition that benefits the consumer, so the government will want some token gestures to show to the public. That means giving up gates and slots to competitors. It wouldn't be a massive sale of gates and slots, but you wouldn't be able to hold on to absolutely everything. I don't think any furloughs or downsizing would result, as resources would just be moved to other markets, but I think you're dreaming if you believe that you'll be able to hold on to everything in the big markets.

The gov't would go after slots if they were redundant on the same routes out of LGA and DCA. If both airlines flew from DCA to DTW, then yes, I bet some slots would be given up. Since none of the routes overlap and NWA's only go nonstop to their current hubs, I doubt those will be given away. Now an ATL gate or two may be given up, but that is about it. Did AWA and USAir have to give up some ORD slots when they merged? I think they kept the same amount of flights to the respective hubs---AWA had flights to LAS and PHX, and USAir flew to CLT, PHL, and PIT. ORD slots are coveted too you know...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

The difference with the AWA/AAA merger was that USAir was about to liquidate. In the case of NWA/DAL, these are two supposedly healthy carriers that simply want to realize the benefit of "synergies." I think you'll have to give up both gates and slots just for appearances' sake for the politicians.

 

[General Lee]

Ok once again what are you disagreeing with???? I have no arguments with what you said...I differ on one item ----"seemless" is in the eye of the beholder. For instance a new hire who is stuck on reserve for the next 7 years might not agree it was "seemless"

I also Disagree I think it is spelled Seamless

Bye Bye TOOL

Thanks for the spelling correction. Your version of the word must be different than mine, and you can't SEAM to relate it in words. You asked if Delta was going to divest themselves of a lot of their flying and allow Airtran the scraps, and I gave you the probable answer. You didn't like it and called me a tool. That wasn't very nice, but I don't mind. Ta Ta.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The difference with the AWA/AAA merger was that USAir was about to liquidate. In the case of NWA/DAL, these are two supposedly healthy carriers that simply want to realize the benefit of "synergies." I think you'll have to give up both gates and slots just for appearances' sake for the politicians.

Supposedly healthy carriers? Why again do we want to merge? $100 a barrel oil. I doubt we will have to give up much, and many airlines may liquidate if they don't merge. That is the key here, everyone will be merging, and Airtran may do the same or even get acquired. Southwest is the only one I can think of that will only be on the offensive. And, the primary politician incharge here is Rep Oberstar, from Minnesota. (wink wink) That is if it happens at all.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nevermind

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why again do we want to merge?

Bye Bye--General Lee

"We" don't. This is to satisfy the greed of a Board which has no long term interest in the health of Delta Air Lines.

 

[Lear70]

You cannot accept that I am right. It kills you. There is NO WAY Delta and NWA would completely leave any of their hubs,

Who said they would? I don't think anyone has said anything about completely pulling out all the flights of ANY hub of either NWA or DAL...

Wake up, and actually add something of substance. Airtran has RECORD loads out of MEM? HUH???? Well, ok then? Can you back that up?

Yup. He's absolutely right. MEM is one of our hottest cities, mainly because of a lack of lower-fare options.

However, your next question is the more important one.

Have they added any new service out of MEM of substance?

No, and there's a big reason why (and a shortcoming of AAI planning IMHO - not necessarily in MEM, just as an overall strategy): AirTran doesn't do point-to-point all that much and, when they do, it's because ATL is a LONG way away to connect.

In the case of MEM, there's flights every 2 1/2 hours or so to ATL where they can connect all over the country (only a 50 minute flight). Why push for more gate space in a city that is paying good yields to go to another city where they can't connect?

Just because we're filling the airplanes doesn't mean we would if we started flying MEM-LAS or MEM-LAX, etc. You start focusing your assets on one small group of fliers in MEM, you start losing money.

Incidentally, having come from the red-tail group and watched several ramp-downs and pull-downs in MEM capacity, you'll understand why it would likely be reduced even further with the DAL route overlap.

I see MEM being barely a focus city for a combined NWA/DAL with ATL so close by. This will also allow yields to come up with reduced flight options which will suck somewhat for pax, but we all know fares and yields need to come up anyway.

CVG is another story and, since I don't know as much about it, I'll save it for someone else to comment.

JFK slots suck. They're overrated, saturated with low-cost options, plagued by delays, and are really only good if your airline has international flow you can feed into. A combined DAL/NWA might be forced to give up a few, but I'm betting money the DOT starts capping flights in and out of JFK to help cope with the increased delay problems of the last 2 years and any forced pull-back in a merger would likely be forcibly left vacant by the DOT.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I think a DL merger will benefit Airtran significantly....IF they take advantage of the opportunity. They have to take a page out of the SWA playbook...SWA has grown tremendously in their history at the expense of others. Mergers, bankruptcies, etc...are a tremendous opportunity for a carrier with $$$ standing around. Airtran would have a HUGE opportunity if DAL merges, just don't know how healthy Airtran is to go on the attack.

General Lee is convinced this would make DAL stronger and there would be no consolidation since the carriers don't overlap. This is obviously a pipe dream...the whole point of a merger in this case is to CUT costs, if not, this would not be happening at the present moment. I predict NWA/DAL merging, and then over time shrinking to 75% of what both are now. This is in a healthy merger...if they get into serious $$$ trouble expect NWA/DAL to be 50% of what they are now...cutting capacity in the system and Airtran picking up some serious opportunity. They better...because SWA is also hungry. This is what happens in Synergies, mergers, aquisitions...etc...anyone flown into STL lately? PIT? these two HUBS have suffered greatly from Mergers. This merger is not to grow into super carrier, this merger is being done to cut capacity and SALVAGE something. Unfortunately that means consolidation. Two healthy carriers would not want this right now.