AirTran Contract issues

[Spidey]

If coke pay their co-pilots pretty well ,so can we.
Happy new year.

Apples and oranges.

 

[ATLplt]

Coke's great only if you belonged to the special Spidey club. That's about all they hire these days.

 

[curtis46]

Apples and oranges.

Lear70 and the others know what i mean.
are you bored?

 

[71driver]

good stuff gents! not to be hum drum but I did want to add;

The companies job during negotiations is to find areas to exploit, our negotiating commitees job is to show a unified front i.e. we will not sell our reserves and f/o's down the river so Airtran can finance Captain pay rates...period!
Well, as we all know our NC gents failed, almost I contend, to a criminal level. 3 years of negotiations and they brought those TA's to a vote?!! I honestly don't know how these morons can walk amoungst us. Does anybody believe this would have happened at a Delta/American/United/Southwest airlines....of course not then why should we.
We now have new leadership it is imperative that we stay engaged.
I am already suspect of our new VP who is on the PAB, some say he must step down, I say you betcha, the problem I have is he has already shown his hand to be pro-company and I don't like re-runs if you get my drift. How Brad D didn't get elected is beyond me.

We must insist that our union show more leadership and make a f*ckin stance once in a while, when LEAR70 got fired what did they do, when the company told our union to shut down the message board what did they do, when one of our Captains got fired, for a write-up for christ sake what did they do, during 2006 christmas debacle what did they do, over and over they have failed to stand up to the company, yet if you ask them, and I have, they say we have a weak pilot group I say show some leadership, real leadrship and the masses will follow.

As a side note, I would like to see Brad D. in the new round of negotations, he has been there before and was the reason we got 10.5% matched to our retirement from the last contract.
Also Lear70 should be there he has earned it and we need him to read through the crap the company will likely try to stuff down our throats.

 

[Lear70]

Thanks, 71drvr, I appreciate your strength of spirit!

I had a talk with some of the BoD about being available for negotiations. The initial feeling (which I agree with) is that they don't want to stir the pot, so to speak.

They want to see if the company, with its new senior leadership, is going to take a more reasonable stance at contract gains appropriate for their profitability and our part in it.

To that end, there's no reason to put people at the table that are going to antagonize the company.

However, should that approach fail, I imagine there might be some use in having someone there who won't take ANY B.S. whatsoever and will raise the B.S. flag when it's appropriate.

Mike knows how I feel and knows that, regardless of where I'm working when a new T.A. comes out, that I will be doing my analysis of it again. Hopefully it will be a positive analysis...

 

[curtis46]

71driver,Brad didn't get elected because half of the pilot group doesn't trust any senior guys anymore.there's a say,once you got spray with hot water,you're afraid of cold water.
our new vp will need to listen to the pilot group.we need to make sure he get the message loud and clear.i talked to him once,i will talk to him again.everyone should do the same.no more 3 years of BS negotiations.we need to make clear to the NC of what we expect from them,open up the channel of communication,and if Brad or lear are willing to help bring them on.

 

[Lowrider717]

we need to make clear to the NC of what we expect from them,open up the channel of communication.

If this group doesn't pull together when it counts, it won't matter if the NC "knows what we expect of them".

 

[maxblast72]

I could walk right by our new VP in the hall tomorrow and not even realize it. However, considering our new VP is a 2 year FO, I can't imagine he would sell FO's down the street as he could very well be a FO himself for another 3 or 4 years.

Who knows, I could be completely wrong. But another crap FO TA would get voted down again. MB is too smart to let another crappy TA come down the street.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

, I can't imagine he would sell FO's down the street as he could very well be a FO himself for another 3 or 4 years.

I dont know he told me he felt the FO pay rates were fair. So at this point Im not expecting much. But like you said will see.

 

[Spidey]

Coke's great only if you belonged to the special Spidey club. That's about all they hire these days.

Yeh, I never considered them, but it appears they turned you down-don't fret. I know the ole chief pilot over there. You're in a good place ATLboy-know your procedures and you'll do well. Happy New Year.

 

[Spidey]

I am glad Lear70 is back on line.

 

[71driver]

I dont know he told me he felt the FO pay rates were fair. So at this point Im not expecting much. But like you said will see.

I talked to Mike B after he got elected and asked him how he felt the F/O's pay was in the TA's. While he was explaining the formula/formulas and on and on, on how they got to where they got to get those rates I felt like I was talking to a used car salesman (nothing against Mike) but the answer should have been simply the F/O's took it in the shorts period.

Our old VP Mike S also when I queried him said "will work on the F/O rates next contract!What would that be 7-8years with that measly retroactive pay we were going to get?

I talked to Allen P. he said you'll upgrade in 3 years so we are not concerned.

I talked RD and he echoed a similiar response.

I am telling all you F/O's THERE IS A TARGET ON OUR BACKS TO FINANCE CAPTAIN PAY RATES, you must let your union know how you feel about it. If Airtran keeps selling back options your upgrade will be longer and longer.

It is real simple...I like simple, Captain pay rates shadow industry average guess what SO DO F/O RATES LET OUR UNION KNOW HOW YOU STAND

 

[njcapt]

I am glad Lear70 is back on line.

What are you talking about? The last I heard Lear was still flying for Kalitta. I can only assume that Klaus is following through on his campaign of terror.

 

[Lear70]

What are you talking about? The last I heard Lear was still flying for Kalitta. I can only assume that Klaus is following through on his campaign of terror.

If so, it's news to me... especially since I'm sitting on the road babysitting a Lear until we get our next callout.

 

[Spidey]

If so, it's news to me... especially since I'm sitting on the road babysitting a Lear until we get our next callout.

My bad, good luck!

 

[Lear70]

Oh no biggie... It's not so bad.

I was told that the rumor is that Klaus isn't happy until he knows he's financially ruined someone from their experience, that he's proud to have driven people into bankruptcy for fighting him or the airline.

He's on the wrong track here.

The money could be better, no doubt... Things are tight, I'm selling my truck, trading in the Audi for a Honda, downsizing to a smaller house, and the wife picked up more hours - still snug on expenses but it works, even if it's hard to have to explain to your friends why you suddenly went from one standard of life to another and can't do the big cruise or ski trip this winter.

The time off is the big KILLER. I miss my family a lot, only get 9 days a month at home and my son is 2. Make no mistake; I'm missing a lot of stuff; moments I will NEVER EVER be able to reclaim again. All thanks to certain airTran management.

It's very, very hard not to be bitter about it, but no one likes to hear about it and it only makes me unpleasant to be around so I use these boards to get it out of my system so no one around me has to hear me b*tch about it.

Not that you guys like to hear it either, but at least it feels like being out with your drinking buddies where you can b*tch for 5-10 minutes then talk about women again and all is good. :beer:

Said it before... there's lots of guys who have it worse than me. I have my health and the health and love of my family, a house over my head, and a way to feed and clothe the kids... AND I still get to fly.

I'll take it!

God bless that when you guys hear a "moviefone" voice checking in with a Kalitta callsign, say hi sometime!

 

[ATLplt]

Yeh, I never considered them, but it appears they turned you down-don't fret. I know the ole chief pilot over there. You're in a good place ATLboy-know your procedures and you'll do well. Happy New Year.

Turned down? Not me, never considered it. I have a friend who was a pilot on the Coke Global side of things for many years. I've heard his stories, and always figured it wasn't my kind of flying. They have some pretty nice birds though.

I think we're all in a good place here with a lot of room to improve in the future. :beer: Happy New Year.

 

[BigMeat]

That is not my position at all. I have no issue with anyone trying to better themselves or their family or the various groups in our airline. What I have a problem with is the mentality that I am now some kind of a demon simply because I voted yes on TA2. I evaluated it and voted accordingly, it was not perfect..far from it in fact. But in my opinion it was as good as we were going to get looking into the future. This entire thread has become totally convoluted and emotional and this will be my last post on this topic. Again, I state that the system worked as it should. I'm not pissed at anyone voting NO on it. Why is that people are seeking blood from those that voted yes?? I don't get it. I enjoy my job immensely and feel as though my crews are my friends and family. Apparently, its not a 2 way street where thats concerened.

Ya'all have great new year.

RV

You voted that way because you are stupid. Dont compare other peoples concessionary contract to what you hope in the future. Its called raising the bar. I have many friends over at Airtran and am happy to see it get voted down. You need to have your hands tide behind your back, then get pitched forward till your face is sitting in a mud puddle, then have someone put a cinder block on the back of your head so that you cant move. How about that for an intellectual mind inspiring post? Gosh...now where did that kitten go....

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

You voted that way because you are stupid. Dont compare other peoples concessionary contract to what you hope in the future. Its called raising the bar. I have many friends over at Airtran and am happy to see it get voted down. You need to have your hands tide behind your back, then get pitched forward till your face is sitting in a mud puddle, then have someone put a cinder block on the back of your head so that you cant move. How about that for an intellectual mind inspiring post? Gosh...now where did that kitten go....

Man I need to copy of that, so I can hand it out to every senior CA that wines how hes losing money because it didn't get voted in.

 

[-9Capt]

i wouldn't use TA2 as toilet paper! And I'm a 10 year guy BTW.

I couldn't vote no fast enough.

rv, TA2 was put out with a recommendation to ratify, not neutral. Remember this, you're voting on an entire document not just the sections that benefit an 8yr capt. Do you SAP? You do realize SAP1 had coverage limits, right? That makes it as useless as SAP2 is now.

The pay and work rules were lacking in every way. The signing bonus was an insult. The language was weak and could easily be reinterpreted by the company or an arbitrator. Scope concessions, door closed, grievance, cancellation pay, trip pick up while on vacation, and mid seniority capt pay rates equal to fo rates of 10 years ago. Tell me again how this TA was acceptable?

No thanks.