AirTran Contract issues

[Lear70]

What were the hiring minimums at the time?

How many aircraft did airTran have on firm order and how many were they taking delivery of that year?

 

[PCL_128]

TA2 would have been a yes for me if scope and merger language had been different.

It still would have been a clear NO from me, but I would have had a lot less heartburn about it. Scope is the ultimate priority.

 

[twepilot]

it is my opinion that the majority would have benefitted from TA2 in light of todays and the future operating environment.

How can it be a pay cut for someone that isn't even on the property?? Existing new-hires retained their payrates.

I do not regret, nor think my decision to vote yes on TA2 was a bad decision. I however, can accept differing points of view and opinions.

who is going to pay my bills, send my daughter to college etc etc. you? A new hire? Joe blow? I don't think so.

If a pay freeze or anything else is voted in I can deal with that with no hard feelings. Thats the way that it is.

RV

 

[twepilot]

Just a short anecdote..I was flying with a guy just after TA2 went down and as we were discussing the merits and shortfalls of it he says to me "I would have voted yes if it had a provision to move vacation, more sick time", and a few other things that I can't remember right now. When I told him that it contained all those things he says to me "I guess I should have read it and not just listened to other people". Brilliant!

RV

 

[Lear70]

I appreciate your point of view, and I wouldn't worry about having a place to work and money to take care of your family, airTran isn't going anywhere (unless a merger/acquisition happens in which you'll likely still have a job).

I'm certain that the next T.A. will be at least the same, if not more for the senior 1/2 of the pilots, and will likely be more for the junior half and fix some Scope / language issues.

It's really not all that much to ask and the company now knows the measure of the pilots resolve on those key items. It doesn't look good when they get shot down publicly for their failure to present a livable working agreement with their employees. The shareholders are suffering too and will bring added pressure on that front.

All-in-all I don't think we'll get Southwest parity, but I'm absolutely certain we'll do much better in round 3.

On a side note, I hope that this gets more people involved in the next T.A., although the voter turnout for the BoD doesn't exactly make me confident of that...

 

[twepilot]

I agree. Have a good one. Gotta go with the wife to look at furniture. Whatta joy!!

RV

 

[maxblast72]

Guys! Sorry to mingle in your party. But, from what I saw on this board posted as your proposed CA rates, they didn't even come close to CAL's concessionary rates that are now in place. Nor to DAL's for similar size equipment and we're not even gonna touch SWA.

So considering all the workrules and the meagar payraises that were proposed to a small group in your company, how's that a TA that's worth voting for? How are you maintaining or even raising the bar for your fellow aviators that will also be in negotiations in the near future?

I don't know exactly what you were looking at but using myself as an example, TA2 would have paid me $143 an hour as 7th year Captain in 2010. Right now, airlinepilotpay.com is advertising $147 for a 12th year Captain at Continental. Also, talking with some of my new hire buddies at Continental, they said they don't have a duty period guarantee, duty rigs, or trip rigs for domestic flying. Taking those work rules into consideration, I would add another 4-6% to our pay rates (because of the "soft" pay) to get equivalent rates at Continental.

I would take Airtran's TA2 small narrowbody total compensation vs. Continental's small narrowbody compensation anyday. Am I missing something?

Prior to the age 65 rule coming into effect I thought Continental might have been a decent place to work due to quick seniority progression but I would now bet Airtran's FO's will make Captain quicker than Continental FO's. We still got 65 airplanes on order (non of which are replacement airplanes) over the next 4 or 5 years and a probable order for the 737 replacement whenever it comes out.

 

[PCL_128]

Guys! Sorry to mingle in your party. But, from what I saw on this board posted as your proposed CA rates, they didn't even come close to CAL's concessionary rates that are now in place. Nor to DAL's for similar size equipment and we're not even gonna touch SWA.

So considering all the workrules and the meagar payraises that were proposed to a small group in your company, how's that a TA that's worth voting for? How are you maintaining or even raising the bar for your fellow aviators that will also be in negotiations in the near future?

Gotta agree with maxblast on this one. There were many problems with TA2, but Capt pay wasn't one of them. The top CA rate for SNBs was $183/hr. That's higher than many of the legacies are paying their widebody CAs now.

 

[Thunderchief]

We don't need an 18 yr pay scale either, I don't understand how people think that is a 'good thing'. It just spreads the money the company is willing to pay THINNER over more years.
And the scope language has to be iron clad tight!
-tc

 

[Kenney G]

Just a short anecdote..I was flying with a guy just after TA2 went down and as we were discussing the merits and shortfalls of it he says to me "I would have voted yes if it had a provision to move vacation, more sick time", and a few other things that I can't remember right now. When I told him that it contained all those things he says to me "I guess I should have read it and not just listened to other people". Brilliant!

RV

Hey Twe. I read your TA and was wondering if you could point out 2-3 good things in it besides the pay rate? I could not find much. Just trying to understand.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

scope scope scope!!!!!!!!!! If we had good scope I think I could brought myself to vote for it. But it was lagging in many areas

 

[twepilot]

very true...

RV

 

[maxblast72]

I think if we left our Captain payscale at a 12 year max with COLA from our current topout of $152, we could have built a respectable FO payscale that would help us lower our attrition rate. I don't think our Captains need one cent more than COLA until our FO payscale is respectable enough that I can convince my friends that Airtran is a good place for them to apply for.


Speaking of attrition, I flew with a FO (8 months seniority) tonight that will be leaving for Delta within a few months. His reason was the FO payscales and uncertainity of upgrading at Airtran within the next 5 years. He felt more comfortable that he would be able to earn a decent living in the right seat at Delta over the next few years than being in the right seat at Airtran.

 

[Spidey]

I think if we left our Captain payscale at a 12 year max with COLA from our current topout of $152, we could have built a respectable FO payscale that would help us lower our attrition rate. I don't think our Captains need one cent more than COLA until our FO payscale is respectable enough that I can convince my friends that Airtran is a good place for them to apply for.


Speaking of attrition, I flew with a FO (8 months seniority) tonight that will be leaving for Delta within a few months. His reason was the FO payscales and uncertainity of upgrading at Airtran within the next 5 years. He felt more comfortable that he would be able to earn a decent living in the right seat at Delta over the next few years than being in the right seat at Airtran.

A very good (great) friend of mine is upgrading to 88 Cap after 8 years at Delta. Depending on the age of the fo, they might be right. There is alot of gloom and doom out there now among gear handle pullers. My Delta bud said 4 and half years ago that his company had so much cash, they would never run out. It is a fickle bidness. Your fo must have tubed the southwest interview. Happy New Year to All! Things ain't that bad!

 

[71driver]

TWE Pilot not to pick on but....

You guys that come from the commutors and land your big major airline job "Airtran" think you have reached the mountain top...you have not my friend you are only at base camp

The quality of life i.e. issues in our contract need to be taken care of amoung many many other things. you guys that say TA2 wasn't so bad scare me.

Just one of the many items FO pay went flat line while the captains continued to shadow the industry average but who cares about the guy sitting next to you as a 6 year F/O that is struggling to make ends meet you got yours right?

Our union needs to grow some balls but they can't with guys like you supporting them or lack thereof