How to tell if you are flying with someone that has passed 60

[bubbers44]

Most senior captains who had to retire at 60 were very sharp and the old law never seemed fair to me even when I was very junior. I hope the junior pilots who have been bashing will not just look at their temporary stagnation and look at what these people still have to offer. If getting his job is your goal then You are a very selfish person, not him.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Every time he explains how to improve your flying you realize he is 10x more knowledgeable than you.

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Good one!

"Knowledge"?

Like Rainman?

It's about decisions. Decisions are knowledge processing. Please tell me you knew that, cuz I'd hate to think you didn't process that bit well.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Most senior captains who had to retire at 60 were very sharp and the old law never seemed fair to me even when I was very junior.

"Most".

When asked how many airline flights in the US are being operated at optimum safety...the answer is supposed to be "most"?

Being under age 60 doesn't necessarily make a pilot "safer", but it tends to reduce the odds the pilot has an age-induced loss of reflexes and/or cognitive ability. How do we know? Cuz they picked an age! They chose 65! Was it based on any empirical data or research...or was the number (my favorite part!) arbitrary?

Naturally, the age one starts to lose his/her edge varies by individual. Just as naturally, we don't test for cognitive abilty and we don't make rules for "individuals". Need proof? Some of us were ready to be ATP's before age 23. Some weren't ready until much later.

Congress...those aviation experts, jammed a rule down the throat of the FAA. Unless you're prepared to say everything Congress does makes sense, you might wanna present a better argument than "most 60 year pilots are safe".

 

[ASADriver]

You sound a little bitter Occam. What's the problem. ALPA endorsed it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

You sound a little bitter Occam. What's the problem. ALPA endorsed it.

Bitter...me?

Nah.

I don't like changes like this without a compelling reason to change them. I'm still waiting for that reason.

You know how the membership of ALPA feels about the issue. I'm not upset with my union over the change...the issue was divisive. If ALPA was going to issue an "endorsement" for/against abortion, I suspect it would be divisive too.

I'm a Big Picture guy with enough free time to tap away on issues like this.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Check his/her teeth ...

 

[stonewall]

I'm a Big Picture guy with enough free time to tap away on issues like this.

You're also a Captain. What's your issue with this rule? I'm not sure how many summers have passed you, but you always struck me as an, uh, 'older' gent. Maybe it's your wisdom...surely not your wit.:laugh:

Are you going to fly past age 60?

For the record, I both oppose and support the change. So much for my early-30's wisdom. I selfishly oppose the rule, but I support the rule for the Vietnam-type guys like my Old Man who could've safely kept flying the line. That said, I'm glad Pops is playing golf everyday instead of hub-turning. That's what ALL of you distinguished gentlemen should do!

 

[Max Powers]

I guess my group relates to those that we followed and frankly enjoyed flying with, and yes there were more than a few characters in the group. Like the guys who flew the B17s, B24s and even a few B29 guys in the group. Then there was our CP/VP Flt Ops who had spent 3 years as a German POW after being shot down in his P51 along with another "character" who had played a kid in the Our Gang movies before becoming a P47 pilot and also having shot down over Germany. Same guy who got the nose of a B707 off the ground before realizing that there was a flight control jammed and managed to get the thing back on the runway and stopped without killing anyone or wrecking the airplane. I won't even bore you with the Vietnam drivel as these pilots brought a whle new dimension to our operation and you think your careers are so damaged because of this age 65 debacle that has been heaped upon you. Hell there guys in that spent 10+ years on the panel before even getting a window seat. So suck it up, get involved in your association, or get a new one (probably a bad idea!) but stop whining and posting all the insults as it makes you look like complete morons. many before you have done more, been more, and continue to carry the water without all the whining. One more time, don't worry about this little blip on your careers and watch out for the crooks running your companies. They are the real dangers lurking ahead

Merry Christmas

Man I would love to fly with you and hear all these great stories about how great and awesome you are. NOT!!!

You must be one annoying individual to fly with. I guess those of us under 40 have never had an engine fire, flight control failure, been shot at in combat or had any other emergency. You benefited your whole career from the age 60 and now - that it threatens you, you're happy to see it go. When in fact the majority of pilots are against the age 60 rule. Last I checked this was a democracy but I guess not with this issue once again special interests win out.

 

[Occam's Razor]

You're also a Captain. What's your issue with this rule? I'm not sure how many summers have passed you, but you always struck me as an, uh, 'older' gent. Maybe it's your wisdom...surely not your wit.:laugh:

Out of burner, chaff, flares.

I'm in the top half of my seniority list, and enjoy the seat I'm in. The rule change doesn't help or hurt me. (And I'm not THAT old!)

Are you going to fly past age 60?

I doubt I'll fly past 58. (That's in several more years, thank you!) My other gig is working out well for me.

For the record, I both oppose and support the change. So much for my early-30's wisdom. I selfishly oppose the rule, but I support the rule for the Vietnam-type guys like my Old Man who could've safely kept flying the line. That said, I'm glad Pops is playing golf everyday instead of hub-turning. That's what ALL of you distinguished gentlemen should do!

Ouch!

 

[N1VIBS]

"Most".

When asked how many airline flights in the US are being operated at optimum safety...the answer is supposed to be "most"?

Being under age 60 doesn't necessarily make a pilot "safer", but it tends to reduce the odds the pilot has an age-induced loss of reflexes and/or cognitive ability. How do we know? Cuz they picked an age! They chose 65! Was it based on any empirical data or research...or was the number (my favorite part!) arbitrary?

Naturally, the age one starts to lose his/her edge varies by individual. Just as naturally, we don't test for cognitive abilty and we don't make rules for "individuals". Need proof? Some of us were ready to be ATP's before age 23. Some weren't ready until much later.

Congress...those aviation experts, jammed a rule down the throat of the FAA. Unless you're prepared to say everything Congress does makes sense, you might wanna present a better argument than "most 60 year pilots are safe".

Most pilots UNDER 60 are safe!!

 

[Dan Roman]

LOL N1 I was going to make the same response! The arguement was made by the lawmakers that the older pilots experience was needed. Judging from the incredably childess reponse of some of the younger guys on here, I would say that may be the case. There are some guys on here that are stressing over having their upgrade slowed but have demonstrated that don't have the maturity to be a Captain yet.

 

[Dan Roman]

Out of burner



I doubt I'll fly past 58. (That's in several more years, thank you!) My other gig is working out well for me.



Ouch!

That's real nice for YOU. But I know plenty of folks in this industry that got totally screwed out of their retirement through no fault of their own. That's who this helps and all it will cost is a couple years slower upgrade (not everyone will fly to 65, me included) but give's everyone the chance to increase their earning power later in life if they need to. As for you arrogant little wimps that say "they should have planned better" you are simply proving how clueless you are. I've got news for you, life is full of unexpected turns and twist's, some people get hit pretty hard in life and need to work longer, it's not their fault.

 

[Max Powers]

That's real nice for YOU. But I know plenty of folks in this industry that got totally screwed out of their retirement through no fault of their own. That's who this helps and all it will cost is a couple years slower upgrade (not everyone will fly to 65, me included) but give's everyone the chance to increase their earning power later in life if they need to. As for you arrogant little wimps that say "they should have planned better" you are simply proving how clueless you are. I've got news for you, life is full of unexpected turns and twist's, some people get hit pretty hard in life and need to work longer, it's not their fault.

How about those that never even got a retirement......how about them apples......I guess a portion of something is better than a portion of nothing.

 

[Dan Roman]

Man I would love to fly with you and hear all these great stories about how great and awesome you are. NOT!!!

You must be one annoying individual to fly with. I guess those of us under 40 have never had an engine fire, flight control failure, been shot at in combat or had any other emergency. You benefited your whole career from the age 60 and now - that it threatens you, you're happy to see it go. When in fact the majority of pilots are against the age 60 rule. Last I checked this was a democracy but I guess not with this issue once again special interests win out.

I don't see anything that indicates spooky is saying how "wonderful he is". He just gave a tip of the hat to those ahead of him. He also made a very good point, that after you have gone through this industry long enough, you'll realize this isn't as big a deal as you think. If this age 65 thing is the worst "unexpected" thing to happen to you in your career you are one of the lucky ones.

 

[xjcaptain]

Let's see...over 60, most likely no ipod...no gel (or hair), experienced, been there done that and not having to reinvent the wheel. Seems like every 200 hour wonder likes to believe that they know everything about aviaiton, but perhaps there are things that can be learned from people who have been doing this job for DECADES. Trust me they have seen the lines of T-storms, low vis and blowing snow with braking action nothing. Amazing how much you can learn by listening and watching to those more experienced.