An idea on age 65...

[ABXbooger]

Lets find someone to do an "expose" on the farce that is the flight medical experience. We all know how easy it is to find an AME that can "get you through". I think the flying public should know how easy it is for a pilot to cruise through the medical process. Think Stone Phillips would be able to pull himself away?

 

[AC560]

Except the age 65 issue has nothing to do with health and everything to do with money. I am sure your concern over the issue is the safety of the flying public and not your wallet.

 

[Mamma]

Except the age 65 issue has nothing to do with health and everything to do with money. I am sure your concern over the issue is the safety of the flying public and not your wallet.

Uh, please read this post.....

http://commerce.senate.gov/public/i...ngs.Testimony&Hearing_ID=1581&Witness_ID=4478

 

[AC560]

Uh, please read this post.....

Uh, please read any of the 9000 posts on this forum. Health is the argument trying to be made for/against age 65 by both sides. It is just a guise though for the true aims which is compensation.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Uh hello, Your Leader already signed the the Bill. The 2008 Election cant come soon enough

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Lets find someone to do an "expose" on the farce that is the flight medical experience. We all know how easy it is to find an AME that can "get you through". I think the flying public should know how easy it is for a pilot to cruise through the medical process. Think Stone Phillips would be able to pull himself away?

A "non-issue." WE all know that there are those AME's that nobody goes to. You can probably get in to see them very easily. Why? Because they do more than the other guys do.

If you really want the "full monty" go see them. Or you can always ask your own AME for the "full monty".

Tell us....what is it that you would like to see your AME do that he doesn't do right now? What exactly does your AME do during your flight physical? Does your AME comply with all FAA directives? If he doesn't, why do you continue to see him? Would he support you in this Quixotic quest?

Would you be willing to give us his name and address?

There is a reason for what is called a "second opinion" where Doctors are concerned. You don't like the flight physical you are getting? Go see another AME...I think that is what Stone Phillips would say.

 

[Andrew_VT]

Uh hello, Your Leader already signed the the Bill. The 2008 Election cant come soon enough

I hate Bush as much as the next guy but even the guy I'm hoping for, Obama, would have signed the bill. All of the candidates would of...hell, didn't it pass both the house and the senate without a single nay?

 

[USMC319]

Lets find someone to do an "expose" on the farce that is the flight medical experience. We all know how easy it is to find an AME that can "get you through". I think the flying public should know how easy it is for a pilot to cruise through the medical process. Think Stone Phillips would be able to pull himself away?

I think all your suggestion would do is create a couple hairbrained, knee-jerk policies that wouldn't do anything except make this career more inconvenient than it already is for everyone. Maybe you could get it so we all have to go see two AMEs to get a sign off from now on. Knock yourself out.

 

[Skank]

Lets find someone to do an "expose" on the farce that is the flight medical experience. We all know how easy it is to find an AME that can "get you through". I think the flying public should know how easy it is for a pilot to cruise through the medical process. Think Stone Phillips would be able to pull himself away?

Your hypocrisy easily rivals that of any hack reporter. So, if such an effort were undertaken, and it turned out that lots of unhealthy, but under 65 guys lost their medical, would you feel vindicated?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Just what we need, an astronaut physical every 6 months. That is the single most short-sighted, idiotic post I have ever read on Flightinfo. And that's saying a lot.

 

[skydash]

Be careful what you wish for my friend. That's a sword that cuts both ways.

 

[BoilerUP]

Whats the difference in an FAA First Class and an ICAO First class?

 

[Spooky 2]

Whats the difference in an FAA First Class and an ICAO First class?

The biggest difference is that there is no such thing as an ICAO medical. Maybe your thinking of a JAA medical and having had a couple of those, there is nothing that special about them that I can recall.

Proably the biggest issue regarding 1st class medicals today would be to invoke a stress EKG, which ALPA has veimently opposed in the past. Like one of the others in this group has said, becareful what you whish for as it may come true.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Think Stone Phillips would be able to pull himself away?

Hey Booger...here's something else to think about...in 1983, the CAL pilots went on strike. ALPA was successful in getting the attention of a show called "60 Minutes".

they got about 10 minutes of airtime on that piece, that questioned the "safety" and quality of the pilots being hired at CAL during the strike. Even had a B-727 that had a hard landing, and flew around for a few days with crinkled skin that resulted from that landing. It was a LGA tower controller that saw the skin irregularity and alerted the FAA and CAL ops in LGA.

You can clearly see what the result of that TV expose' had on CAL....can't you?

In 1985, the UAL pilots went on strike for 29 days. the CBS network had a short lived newsmagazine show on Saturday nights ( not a good TV ratings night) called "West 57th Street".

A couple of years after that strike, Reporter Steve Krofft did a story on the atmosphere in the cockpits at UAL between the honorable UAL pilots and the scabs.

Even Rick Dubinsky was interviewed. One of his comments was...."Those guys are just upset because when they look at themselves in the mirror every morning...they are not happy with what they see".

EVen today, you can see then results that came from that being aired....right? Can't you?

Let me recount a conversation that took place between me and a USAF aircraft crew chief in late 1983...

Me: Chief, you going home for Christmas?

Him: Yes sir

Me: Flying or driving?

Him: Flying,sir

ME: really? On who?

Him: Continental

Me: Chief, you might want to reconsider that. Did you know that those guys are on strike? That airline even has questionable maintenance practices...you sure you want your family flying on them?

Him: ( thinks for a second)....Yeah, but Sir, the FAA is watching them and ( pregnant pause) I did get my tickets for $29 dollars each.

That last comment hit me like a brick....thats when I understood the mentality of the traveling public in this ( then) new deregulated environment.

Stone Phillips may do your show...but if you're expecting a groundswell of a public protest...you're dreaming.

Remember, you are just a part of a transportation system. The public really doesn't care about your personal issues...they just care about the ticket price...and that their flight is on time.

Now get out there and stay on schedule

 

[JPAustin]

Age aside, medicals are a joke. How many fat$%^ elder pilots with 6 heart attacks behind them do you see waddling up the concourse and squeezing themselves into the cockpit just because of medical demonstratibility from their AME? Then, how many otherwise young and healthy pilots lose their medical for some minimal condition that really has nothing to do with flight safety because the FAA has decided that certain congenital "defects" are permanently disqualifiable?

This whole Age 65 bit is complete bull^&$% concocted by a minority elitist group of elders who can't see beyond themselves to understand that their job as professionals is to realize when reduced safety, because of pilot health (their health), becomes a real concern.

 

[Spooky 2]

Age aside, medicals are a joke. How many fat$%^ elder pilots with 6 heart attacks behind them do you see waddling up the concourse and squeezing themselves into the cockpit just because of medical demonstratibility from their AME? Then, how many otherwise young and healthy pilots lose their medical for some minimal condition that really has nothing to do with flight safety because the FAA has decided that certain congenital "defects" are permanently disqualifiable?

This whole Age 65 bit is complete bull^&$% concocted by a minority elitist group of elders who can't see beyond themselves to understand that their job as professionals is to realize when reduced safety, because of pilot health (their health), becomes a real concern.

Your starting to sound like a broken record here. Probably just as many young out of condition young guys out there as the old farts. Elitists, not so sure but obviously they out smarted you younger guys so in this case at least, they appear to be smarter, which after all, is what counted at this critical juncture in airline one upsmanship. PS, I retired at 58 so don't blame me.

 

[JPAustin]

Your starting to sound like a broken record here. Probably just as many young out of condition young guys out there as the old farts. Elitists, not so sure but obviously they out smarted you younger guys so in this case at least, they appear to be smarter, which after all, is what counted at this critical juncture in airline one upsmanship. PS, I retired at 58 so don't blame me.

Exactly my point! You take an out of condition pilot, but add age to the equation, and you have got one ticking timebomb there! That is what I mean when I say that FAA medicals are a joke. The FAA enforces only their guidance measures, not regulations, which is basically accepted practices of interpretation of the regulations (kind of like the cannonization of the bible). The problem is, no one outside of the FAA, such as operators, pilots, and AMEs are privy to that guidance. How else do you think that group of 100 some odd pilots in Northern California got away with false medicals for a decade?

Now, I have no clue what you mean when you stated that the elitists among pilots have "outsmarted" we younger guys, unless it was meant purely for spite, which when applied, really implies that you have no legitimate argument. Nevertheless, is it my imagination, or did not the majority of ALPA members vote AGAINST age 65? Is it my imagination that ALPA at one time was AGAINST age 65? Is it my imagination that APA is AGAINST age 65? If you are implying that winning Age 65 in spite of a majority vote against Age 65 is "out-smarting" us, then it sounds like the elitist "old farts" (your words, not mine) in fact cheated the majority out of a sound democratic process. No one was outsmarted, just unethically out-maneuvered.

PS -- I do find it amusing that you believe in, and are apparently in favor of, an elitist class among airline pilots. Since when is a caste system a sound and accepted practice of a democratic union? You are older and fly bigger aircraft than I, ergo you are superior me? Come on now. That kind of thinking, and this Age 65 crap, might very well be the straw that breaks ALPA's back, and the only ones to benefit will be the managements. Another fine example of pilot stabbing pilot. Managements love that! You wanna help me be a pallbearer for ALPA's casket during its funeral procession?

 

[AC560]

or did not the majority of ALPA members vote AGAINST age 65? Is it my imagination that ALPA at one time was AGAINST age 65? Is it my imagination that APA is AGAINST age 65?

Why would a union vote have any basis for a decision on health related laws/regulations?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

This whole Age 65 bit is complete bull^&$%. .

You are totally correct. There should be no minimum or maximum age. If you can pass the physical and pass the checkrides that should be enough. Many pilots could probably fly to age 75 with no problem.

 

[USMC319]

You are totally correct. There should be no minimum or maximum age. If you can pass the physical and pass the checkrides that should be enough. Many pilots could probably fly to age 75 with no problem.

To your point, I know a retired NWA pilot that was forced to retire over 20 years ago because of the age 60 rule. As a sign of protest he has subjected himself to a first class medical every six months since then and probably can fly circles around 90 percent of most of his junior peers.

 

[pilotyip]

Astronaut physical for everyone over 39

And with the astronaut physical more prehaps more over 60 would fail than under 60, but the failure curve would start to break upward I would guess somewhere in the post 39 age group. Alot of some 60 pilots would find themselves without a medical. I know at 64 I am in better shape than many of the uniformed pilots I see walking through the terminals.