JC Resigns Comair MEC

[General Lee]

What, was JC supposed to wave his mighty arm of power and magically make Delta give in on scope? It would seem that after 3 months of striking, Delta made it clear that they would shut Comair down permanently before they gave any meaningful scope to the OH guys. No matter; the argument is pointless. In fact, for a Delta pilot, of all people, to lecture anyone else on money vs scope is amusing. Do you guys ever negotiate any contracts where you don't give up more seats on the RJ's?

Oh yeah, the NEXT ONE. Thank you---have a good night everyone, and tip your waitress.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnboy99]

Just the threat of losing the pensions scared 2300 captains into retirement. Those 2300 guys will not fly to age 65 at Delta. Now I can almost hold 737-800 Captain. Not bad!(everything I said here is true)

Bye Bye--General Lee

I have my doubts if you could even pass a Captains checkride there motormouth.

General Lee = Major league idiot

 

[Beergut]

A shame. I always disagreed with the way he handled the DAL furlough situation, but he was a great rep overall, and he worked harder at representing regional members than just about anyone else. I hope the CMR members thank him for his long service.

He pissed off the ASA MEC when Comair took concessions. ASA was working on a new contract and the Comair and ASA MEC's were pretty tight. Then Comair agreed to concessions and ASA felt betrayed.

 

[PCL_128]

He pissed off the ASA MEC when Comair took concessions. ASA was working on a new contract and the Comair and ASA MEC's were pretty tight. Then Comair agreed to concessions and ASA felt betrayed.

Anyone that felt betrayed because of concessions that were forced on CMR pilots in bankruptcy is a twit. The pilots had no right to strike or carry out any other job action, so they had no choice but accept the concessions that the judge was going to force down their throat. Don't blame the CMR MEC for bad bankruptcy laws.

 

[sweptback]

Anyone that felt betrayed because of concessions that were forced on CMR pilots in bankruptcy is a twit. The pilots had no right to strike or carry out any other job action, so they had no choice but accept the concessions that the judge was going to force down their throat. Don't blame the CMR MEC for bad bankruptcy laws.

He's not talking about the bankruptcy concessions. Everybody expected those, and if they blame Comair for that, they're idiots.

What he's talking about is the first round of concessions they gave in exchange for growth. Comair pilots gave up two years of longevity I believe in order to get new airplanes. Comair had no logical reason to give anything other than their desire for the shiny E-170, which of course they never got but gave the company money anyway.

The funny part was that this all went down right after JC and the CMR MEC mailed a letter to all ASA pilots with a sticker saying that "CMR pilots support ASA pilots." There were a lot of creative things done with those stickers after word of their concessions got around.

 

[V-1]

The ASA pilot group didn't get serious about pursuing a new contract until four months ago. The actions taken by that pilot group four months ago should have been taken three or four years ago.

As ASA failed to secure reasonable gains anytime between 2001 and 2006, their failure placed additional pressure on the Comair pilot group to take even larger concessions during bankruptcy.

Don't think for a minute that ASA's payrates weren't part of the presentation given the bankruptcy judge as Comair management paraded every other low-priced connection carrier in front of the courtroom. The ASA pilot group's failure to secure reasonable gains prior to late 2006 is a factor in the ultimate outcome at Comair.

Even with the concessions the Comair pilot group took in 2006, in a failed attempt to reduce the possibility of bankruptcy, they were still paid at rates higher than ASA pilots. There was no undercutting of pay or benefits by the Comair pilot group prior to bankruptcy.

If one needs to assuage their inability to negotiate improvements in their contract for over five years, then certainly one can look outside their pilot group and find a "reason" for their failure.

Blaming another pilot group for failures at the negotiating table is not constructive, nor mature. The simple truth is that the industry as a whole has not been healthy for many years...and may never again be healthy, given the trend in demand for energy worldwide.

One would be better served looking outside the industry for earning options, in my opinion.

 

[PCL_128]

What he's talking about is the first round of concessions they gave in exchange for growth.

I agree that those concessions were a mistake, but remember, they never actually happened. They were linked to the FA concessions that didn't come to fruition, so the pilot concessions never came to be. The MEC did a much better job in handling the next round of concessionary negotiations.

 

[General Lee]

I have my doubts if you could even pass a Captains checkride there motormouth.

General Lee = Major league idiot

Wow, we were typed in the left seat for the 757/767. You are wrong. Next. Also, I was an E120 Capt at Midway Connection years back. Again, you are wrong. Keep tryin though!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[wmuflyguy]

I agree that those concessions were a mistake, but remember, they never actually happened. They were linked to the FA concessions that didn't come to fruition, so the pilot concessions never came to be. The MEC did a much better job in handling the next round of concessionary negotiations.

Comair voted in a 2 year pay freeze in I think in Febuary of 2005. The Bk contract already restored 1 of those years and the 2nd year will be restored in 2011.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

C'mon Gen. About 20 posts per day and you'll bust the 10,000 mark before the end of the year.

 

[Occam's Razor]

JC is a good man. I've worked with him a lot.

His leadership during the '01 strike was superb. I witnessed it first-hand.

I wish him well.

 

[N2264J]

His "need for greed" in getting the highest pay for regionals netted us a $1 billion loss at mainline...Why again could you not help our furloughed pilots?

When the Comair pilots went on strike, it cost Delta, by their own admission, some $680 million dollars. That's $680 million dollars no longer available to say, fund a pension plan or help finance new aircraft for mainline pilots to fly.

Many Delta pilots had Delta stock in their 401K and the strike had an adverse impact on its value. So is it reasonable to assume Delta pilots, who are big on talking the "union" talk, have a deep seated resentment and animosity toward Comair pilots for striking their airline?

They kept saying we are separate airlines but that's not the way it really is, is it?

Everyone "knows" the regionals are supposed to be a stepping stone and not a career. Apparently, we're not even allowed to aspire to make our airline a career. But the Delta pilots found themselves in an awkward position. (No Delta pilots bothered to walk our picket line after they closed the deal on their contract). As union "brothers," they wouldn't be able to say in public what they really felt because the strike was considered throughout the industry, both inside and outside of ALPA, by mainline and "regional" alike, as a success.

As accolades were showered on Comair pilots as the strike progressed, mainline pilots gritted their teeth - only three people crossed the line (one ex management, one already retired) and Comair pilots were praised for their unity while the mainliners bit their tongues. Comair pilots got to wear a star on their ALPA wings and while the Delta pilots couldn't, their ears turned red as a symbol of the "pecking order" had been stood on its head.

The accrimony grew and they needed a canard so they could rebuke the Comair pilots under the guise of playing "union brothers as victims." Enter the furloughees.

So while Delta pilots were picking up open time as fast as they could which has the affect of keeping the furloughees furloughed, they slam Comair pilots to this very day about a management hiring policy.

 

[PCL_128]

You had me agreeing with your right up until the point that you started defending the MEC's actions on the DAL furloughee situation. Sorry, but there's just no way to defend that.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

GL is almost comical at this point and the Glass House comment is right on. CMR MEC thought they were acting in their own best faith, they were approved to strike, and all the union-back patters did so for their sticking it to management and trying to raise the bar. Retrospect is sorta easy to denigrate eh? GL--won't you just ever go away or you just like hanging with the in-crowd [since yours ignores you]?

 

[C425Driver]

I agree that JC and the MEC should have tried to persuade Comair management to change their hiring policy for furloughed pilots, but only if our back was scratched, too. In conversations that I had with JC and other members of our MEC in the crew lounge, they told me that the DAL MEC wanted the seniority number resignation issue lifted as well as preferential hiring at Comair. In return Comair pilots would get preferential interviewing at DAL - not preferential hiring. They wanted a lot from us with very little in return - there was room for more negotiations between the two pilot groups to come to an amicable agreement and the opportunity was not siezed. Instead, both sides turned their noses up to the other and cried foul on each other.

Even if the Comair MEC agreed to this all they could have done was ask for a change - it is a Comair policy, not a union policy. There is no guarantee that Regional Randy, Phred Betrayal, or anyone else at the Comair GO would have changed anything to help a pilot in need. My personal belief is even if the MEC did ask for a change nothing would have come of it. Perhaps the blame should be shifted, at least partially, to the Comair management for having such a policy. No, I guess it's self-serving to only blame JC and the Comair pilots.

There are many things that I agree with as well as disagree with as far as JC and the MEC go during my 5 years at Comair. I think he was a good leader and motivator during the strike and he was a great advocate for the regional pilot in a union where the regional pilot is looked down upon as a second-rate citizen by it's top national leaders. However, the pre-bankruptcy concessions were unfathomable to me. I still can't believe it ever went to a vote. I was a very junior Captain at the time and I had a lot to gain by adding 45 new aircraft to the fleet but I still voted against the concessions because I felt it was wrong on so many levels. It became even worse when it was revealed that Phred Betrayal (or was his first name Fraud?) made a promise to the pilot group to get all of these shiny new airframes when he couldn't get financing.

I left Comair and the regional airline industry shortly after the first round of concessions went into effect. When I walked through the turnstyle for the last time I left behind any anger and angst I had toward anyone or any group. I worked with some of the best people in my career and I appreciate the time that I had at Comair. I wish JC all the best.

 

[PCL_128]

I agree that JC and the MEC should have tried to persuade Comair management to change their hiring policy for furloughed pilots, but only if our back was scratched, too. In conversations that I had with JC and other members of our MEC in the crew lounge, they told me that the DAL MEC wanted the seniority number resignation issue lifted as well as preferential hiring at Comair. In return Comair pilots would get preferential interviewing at DAL - not preferential hiring. They wanted a lot from us with very little in return - there was room for more negotiations between the two pilot groups to come to an amicable agreement and the opportunity was not siezed.

Wow, that's some great revisionist history, but that's not what took place at all. DALPA scheduled a meeting with JC to discuss this issue, because CMR management had specifically stated that the reason they would not change their policy is because the pilots wouldn't support it. When The DAL MEC Chair showed up to the meeting, instead of JC being there, he was met by the Executive Admin. The EA proceeded to state that for the CMR MEC's position to change, that DALPA would have to agree to talk about easing their scope restrictions on CMR. It had nothing to do with pref hiring of CMR pilots, it was all about further eroding DALPA scope. Since the loss of scope was directly responsible for the furloughees in the first place, it would be asinine for DALPA to consider easing scope yet more, resulting in the furloughed pilots being out of a job for even longer. The DAL Chairman stated that he refused to discuss scope concessions, that this was about one MEC helping the furloughed brothers of another MEC, and that he was only there to discuss the change of the CMR MEC's policy. The EA said that there was nothing further to discuss in that case, and the DAL Chairman walked out.

 

[Nindiri]

Is it true that Delta pilots were picking up open time while there were still pilots on furlough? If true, then it's hard to have very much sympathy for their complaints about the Comair MEC's policy on Delta furloughs. Lead by example.

 

[General Lee]

GL is almost comical at this point and the Glass House comment is right on. CMR MEC thought they were acting in their own best faith, they were approved to strike, and all the union-back patters did so for their sticking it to management and trying to raise the bar. Retrospect is sorta easy to denigrate eh? GL--won't you just ever go away or you just like hanging with the in-crowd [since yours ignores you]?

Glass house, eh? It's great that they tried to get the high pay. Any striking group is obviously going for high pay. But, they went up against Leo Mullin and he crushed them, and they still didn't get what they wanted. The unsuccessful strike cost us (mainline) $1 billion (which hurt after 9-11), and the result was a modest pay increase, and hardly any SCOPE, which was exploited by Leo later on. CVG was invaded by other carriers, and the result now is a smaller Comair, lower pay, BK, and JC Lawson leaving. We all got pay cuts in BK, but Comair is continually getting hammered, and will for awhile.

And no, I won't go away, especially on Comair issues. Their actions after 9-11 were ridiculous and incredibly insensitive to many who were furloughed, many just leaving Comair to go to Delta themselves. Lawson knew he was asking for too much, but did anyway. He will be remembered for just that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[wmuflyguy]

So did JC get hired at Delta?

 

[General Lee]

Is it true that Delta pilots were picking up open time while there were still pilots on furlough? If true, then it's hard to have very much sympathy for their complaints about the Comair MEC's policy on Delta furloughs. Lead by example.

That probably did happen a bit, but we were capped at 75 hours of pay per month, and the rest went into a bank that filled up pay checks to 75 hours when someone had 70 or so hours that month. Did you know that we were actually sued for not picking up overtime, and LOST. We actually LOST a court case with the Federal Court for not keeping with the status quo. So, any stoppage of picking up overtime would have resulted in damages awarded. But, you didn't know that, did you?


Bye BYe--General Lee