JC Resigns Comair MEC

[DrewBlows]

That was painful to read.

For future reference, questions end in a question mark, statements end in a period, and sentences begin with a capital letter.

 

[WWEfan]

General, I understand your attack since JC really did screw over the DAL furloughees. I disagreed vehemently with his actions on that. However, you're speaking of someone that you've probably never met. Do you know JC Lawson? Have you talked to him? Do you know what work he's done over the years? I worked alongside JC on many occasions, and I found him to be an excellent advocate for the membership. He screwed up, but so does everyone else, and I don't condemn him because of one failing.

Adolf Hitler was a strong advocate for his people. He worked hard to achieve the best for them. Do you condemn him simply for his dislike of the Jews?

Ummm...yes.

 

[PCL_128]

Dang, comparing JC to one of the worst mass murderers of the 20th century?

 

[WWEfan]

Dang, comparing JC to one of the worst mass murderers of the 20th century?

I wouldn't do any such thing. I thought it was obvious that my comparison was Delta pilots and Jews.....oh well.

 

[atrdriver]

Hey your not supposed to be reading this stressful stuff.... don't you have a nurse to chase.....:beer:

.... Welcome back.....

Thanks...for the next 6 months at least it's not stressful...just entertaining...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Dang, comparing JC to one of the worst mass murderers of the 20th century?

Dang....... now I have to agree with PCL_128..... comparing JC to Hitler is absurd..... and in bad taste.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I wouldn't do any such thing. I thought it was obvious that my comparison was Delta pilots and Jews.....oh well.

BS.....PCL_128 and I don't agree on much, but it was clear that you were comparing JC to Hitler......

 

[N2264J]

So, after losing the case the first time, we should just go ahead and stop flying overtime again, and risk losing another verdict?

Sweptback is correct. There is no "status quo" to violate outside of Section 6. You should try peddling your compost at the garden center.

Delta pilots were picking up open time as fast as they could at the same time they were slaming Comair pilots for a company hiring policy.

 

[PCL_128]

Sweptback is correct. There is no "status quo" outside of Section 6.

You obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. These types of cases have already been litigated, and ALPA lost in the anti-labor courts. For the DAL pilots to, en mass, stop picking up open time would be an illegal job action akin to striking without a release. The General is correct about that.

Delta pilots were picking up open time as fast as they could at the same time they were slaming Comair pilots for a company hiring policy.

You can try to deflect the issue all you want, but nobody's buying it. It was a despicable thing for the CMR MEC to do, and everyone knows it.

 

[WWEfan]

Dang....... now I have to agree with PCL_128..... comparing JC to Hitler is absurd..... and in bad taste.....

It was funny though....to me anyway.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. These types of cases have already been litigated, and ALPA lost in the anti-labor courts. For the DAL pilots to, en mass, stop picking up open time would be an illegal job action akin to striking without a release.

Actually "status quo" only applies to "minor" and "major" disputes.... It does not apply to a union saying anything outside of a dispute.....

 

[PCL_128]

I never used the term "status quo." That's a legal term that applies in certain situations. This isn't about legal jargon, it's about practical application of the RLA. Under the RLA, any job action outside of an official release is illegal. That includes refusing to pick up open time as a concerted effort.

 

[JoeMerchant]

John, I never used the term "status quo." That's a legal term that applies in certain situations. This isn't about legal jargon, it's about practical application of the RLA. Under the RLA, any job action outside of an official release is illegal. That includes refusing to pick up open time as a concerted effort.

You didn't use "status quo", but N2264J did..... and you accused him of not knowing what he was talking about..... He was correct.....

There is absolutely nothing preventing a pilot group from refusing to pick up open time while other pilots were on furlough.... The union may be asked to put out messages reminding people that they can't do a concerted job action, but nothing prevents an individual pilot from refusing to pick up open time while other fellow pilots are out of work....

The fact is, most pilots do what is best for them....not for others.... In both of these cases, pilot groups were doing what they felt was best for themselves..... Your living in a utopian dreamland if you think pilots will look out for others before themselves......

 

[PCL_128]

You didn't use "status quo", but N2264J did..... and you accused him of not knowing what he was talking about..... He was correct.....

No, he was no correct, because he implied the same falsehood that you are spreading that it's legal for pilots to stop picking up open time.

There is absolutely nothing preventing a pilot group from refusing to pick up open time while other pilots were on furlough.... The union may be asked to put out messages reminding people that they can't do a concerted job action, but nothing prevents an individual pilot from refusing to pick up open time while other fellow pilots are out of work....

As I said, this has already been fought in the courts, and we lost. Any appearance of a concerted effort will lead to sanctions, whether the Association was involved in organizing it or not. The courts specifically told ALPA that it wasn't enough for ALPA not to have personally organized it, they had to actually attempt to stop it. This is part of that whole "system is weighted against us" thing that we're talking about in the other thread.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No, he was no correct, because he implied the same falsehood that you are spreading that it's legal for pilots to stop picking up open time.As I said, this has already been fought in the courts, and we lost. Any appearance of a concerted effort will lead to sanctions, whether the Association was involved in organizing it or not. The courts specifically told ALPA that it wasn't enough for ALPA not to have personally organized it, they had to actually attempt to stop it. This is part of that whole "system is weighted against us" thing that we're talking about in the other thread.

The union can't force the Delta pilots to pick up open time..... Nobody can force me to pick up open time..... The courts can do whatever they want to ALPA, but they cannot force a line pilot to pick up an open time trip and you know it.....

How exactly are the courts going to force me to pick up an open trip?

 

[PCL_128]

John, sometimes I get the feeling that you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Obviously the courts can't "force" you to pick up open time, but if the company goes to the courts with proof that open time pick-ups are down by 50% or whatever number, then the courts will fine the Association. The fines would probably be several million dollars.

 

[JoeMerchant]

John, sometimes I get the feeling that you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Obviously the courts can't "force" you to pick up open time, but if the company goes to the courts with proof that open time pick-ups are down by 50% or whatever number, then the courts will fine the Association. The fines would probably be several million dollars.

...... no I just like throwing the BS flag when I see it...... and I see it alot from you......

So what if the Association get's fined...... If the majority of pilots cared about their fellow furloughed pilots, they would refuse to pick up open time, and there is nothing that anyone can do about that.... But the fact is, the majority only care about themselves, and you and I both know that.....

You continue to spew this utopian "brotherhood" BS, and the fact is, it simply does not exist.......

 

[Nindiri]

It's already been explained to me by Delta pilots in this thread that picking up open time during the furloughs was acceptable because the money was so good.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It's already been explained to me by Delta pilots in this thread that picking up open time during the furloughs was acceptable because the money was so good.

.....that's what this boils down to..... then they want to pontificate about other pilot groups doing what is "right" in the name of "brotherhood".....

uke:

 

[samballs]

not workling out well? so we didnt get 70 seaters big freaking deal. Our tsa brother and sisters and leaving left and right, and the senior people could give a damn about 70 seaters. they are making 90-100 grand flying a 50 seater and they are just fine with that. geauxjets goes to about 10 places and their pilots aren't all that great or happy?

Plus we would have only gotten credit for a maximum of 5 years at TSA? Even you could mathematically deduce that i would be flying a bigger airplane for less money than i was making on a 50 seater? not to mention i would lose a quick week of vacation? So to sum it up, lose vacation, lose pay lose work protection and rules to fly 70 seaters? not in this lifetime.

I voted no, i do it again, and even if it put all of tsa's pilots out of work, i'd still do it again. Becuase you know what? TSA isnt going out of business becuase hulas needs TSA to make moeny to keep both airlines up and running. our local mec was in place for 5 years , we knew every move ( except all the wrongful terminations for a total of 7) tsa would make before they did--- it was a chess match and they were playing checkers---

the vote failed , MISERABLY, we stood our ground and we didnt need lawson and his croanies telling us it was a good deal. and im sure they got flack from duan the train when they reported TSA didnt bite on it.

as we say in the south. "*************************em and feed grits"

The bold should sum up why JC thought you guys should sign it, thats his type of deal. Take flying who cares what you make