JC Resigns Comair MEC

[PCL_128]

General, consider this: if DALPA had publicly stated that the DAL pilots would be sympathy-striking with the CMR pilots if management refused to give in to their demands, then there likely never would have been a strike that cost your company nearly $1 billion. If management knew that not only CMR, but their entire operation was going to shut down over a measly $100 million difference at the bargaining table, then they most likely would have given the CMR pilots nearly everything they were asking for, and your company would have been hundreds of millions richer going into 9/11.

 

[skyslug]

I think we can all agree that JC and the MEC (and management) folks dropped the ball in not supporting the furloughed DAL pilots. The CMR pilots were not asked for their opinion nor were they polled as to their position on this matter - we had NO say (which is normal for the CMR pilots - we were like a bunch of mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed sh!t).

What actually happened at the DAL/CMR MEC meetings we can only speculate as we only hear what we want to hear (and are only told by our MEC's what THEY want us to hear thus getting everyone's underwear in a bundle!)

It's over. JC has resigned. Let it go!

 

[PuffDriver]

I think we can all agree that JC and the MEC (and management) folks dropped the ball in not supporting the furloughed DAL pilots. The CMR pilots were not asked for their opinion nor were they polled as to their position on this matter - we had NO say (which is normal for the CMR pilots - we were like a bunch of mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed sh!t).

What actually happened at the DAL/CMR MEC meetings we can only speculate as we only hear what we want to hear (and are only told by our MEC's what THEY want us to hear thus getting everyone's underwear in a bundle!)

It's over. JC has resigned. Let it go!

If you are going to sit in the dark, then expect said action regarding feces. You left him in power until just a short time ago.

The more and more information that comes out, the more and more bad looking it gets for JC and company. The Comair pilots unfortunately live with the results of apathy, and the putting of their eggs in the wrong basket.

The Delta pilots have let it go, unfortunately they do not forget either. I added to this particular conversation by responding to misinformation put out by another.

 

[Jmoney]

Loser

Maybe they should just let you run the airline, General. If you are half as adept at doing that as you are blowing hot air around here, you could probably get back into backruptcy in half the time-for half the cost!

-IDIOT!

 

[Nindiri]

So there you have it. While our pilots do indeed pick up open time with furloughed pilots, it's contractually allowed. I daresay at 250/hr that many senior Comair pilots would pick up a 20 hour trip as well with pilots out on the street. Not really about Comair thought, is it? Merely a red herring on your part in order to try and escape the Comair support of an over-egod chair.

Oh, I see. It was okay for Delta pilots to pick up open time while their fellow pilots were still on furlough because, after all, it was "contractually allowed", and it paid lots of money.

 

[General Lee]

General, consider this: if DALPA had publicly stated that the DAL pilots would be sympathy-striking with the CMR pilots if management refused to give in to their demands, then there likely never would have been a strike that cost your company nearly $1 billion. If management knew that not only CMR, but their entire operation was going to shut down over a measly $100 million difference at the bargaining table, then they most likely would have given the CMR pilots nearly everything they were asking for, and your company would have been hundreds of millions richer going into 9/11.

PCL,

Ever since the APA took at stand at AA and Pres Clinton got mad at them and they were eventually fined big time (which was thrown out later mutually), airline unions have had to "watch it" when it came to making Presidents mad. After Pres Bush was elected, he was asked about impending airline strikes in the near future, and he stated "there will be no strikes this summer". That was directed at us, and it took away our ability to negotiate that way. He did not state that about Comair, and they were "allowed" to strike. We could not join them thanks to Bush. I will vote for Obama in 08---for labor sake. The Republicans do not care about labor, period.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Oh, I see. It was okay for Delta pilots to pick up open time while their fellow pilots were still on furlough because, after all, it was "contractually allowed", and it paid lots of money.

And, on top of that, it was mandatory to keep the status quo or face another lawsuit, and damages. You keep forgetting that part. Why is that?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

Oh, I see. It was okay for Delta pilots to pick up open time while their fellow pilots were still on furlough because, after all, it was "contractually allowed", and it paid lots of money.

Not at all. I, in fact, did not. Fact is, however, you cannot deny somebody their contractual benefit. Period. Now, if you are going to compare unity, well, maybe you got us. Of course, there was this huge strike, and what did you get out of it? Basically nothing. So, if it floats your boat to say you are the strike kings, good on ya.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

Ever since the APA took at stand at AA and Pres Clinton got mad at them and they were eventually fined big time (which was thrown out later mutually), airline unions have had to "watch it" when it came to making Presidents mad. After Pres Bush was elected, he was asked about impending airline strikes in the near future, and he stated "there will be no strikes this summer". That was directed at us, and it took away our ability to negotiate that way. He did not state that about Comair, and they were "allowed" to strike. We could not join them thanks to Bush. I will vote for Obama in 08---for labor sake. The Republicans do not care about labor, period.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, you have a good understanding of the RLA and how this process works, which is refreshing on this board. However, what you mention about Bush would not have interfered with a sympathy strike in the CMR case. After the CMR pilots were already released into their 30-day cooling off period, the DAL pilots could have announced a sympathy strike without the President having the option of stopping their strike through the NMB. The most he could have done was issue a PEB that would have merely delayed things for another 30 days. In my opinion, an announcement from DALPA about a sympathy strike would have caused DAL management to cave, and a strike never would have taken place at all.

 

[Nindiri]

Riiiiight.

Sorry, but it's already been explained to me that it's okay for Delta pilots to pick up extra flying while their coworkers are furloughed because, by golly, it's "contractually allowed", not to mention good money.

Sorry GL, but the facts are that the same guys whining about Comair were grabbing all the open time they could get. It reeks strongly of greed and hypocrisy. Individual pilots could have stopped picking it up regardless of whether the MEC was allowed to recommend it or not. You guys didn't even try.

 

[Nindiri]

Not at all. I, in fact, did not. Fact is, however, you cannot deny somebody their contractual benefit. Period.

You have integrity, but obviously a lot of guys didn't. Before you go flinging accusations against other pilot groups, it would look better if you cleaned up your own house first.

 

[PuffDriver]

You have integrity, but obviously a lot of guys didn't. Before you go flinging accusations against other pilot groups, it would look better if you cleaned up your own house first.

Non of us have integrity if the price is right. Just so happens that mine is a lot higher than some others. BTW, here is some interesting reading from the former MEC chair for those who question what really happened in the meeting--note preferential HIRING offered. Good riddance:


TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATEecember 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY 41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

 

[samballs]

A shame. I always disagreed with the way he handled the DAL furlough situation, but he was a great rep overall, and he worked harder at representing regional members than just about anyone else. I hope the CMR members thank him for his long service.

How can you sat he is a good rep? During the strike he would threathen that if the contract was not signed the MEC would quit and the pilot group would be out of work. During BK a concessionary contract was TA'd in a couple of weeks and we went every where saying we need this signed now, it is the last best offer. Well when the FLT ATT's did his job and stood up to the company I only took a 6.50 paycut instead of a 13.00 paycut. plus the pay was spilt on the planes, we got better wording. We both agree he screwed over the Delta pilots for his own greed.

Only reason he resigned was becuase they were pushing him to. I was in DEN with one of the MEC and he was asking 3 of us what we thought about JC, we all replied time to hang it up, his response, "well you better be at the next MEC meeting". The new reps got voted in becuase this is what they said they were gonna make happen, they almost did. Unfortunately JC did what every other failed leader does, he resigned instead of fighting for his job, because this is when all your dirty laundry comes out, and there would have been no way for him to defend himself, the REP'S were gonna hang him out to dry,

 

[samballs]

I agree that those concessions were a mistake, but remember, they never actually happened. They were linked to the FA concessions that didn't come to fruition, so the pilot concessions never came to be. The MEC did a much better job in handling the next round of concessionary negotiations.

Yes they did we took a pay freeze which hurt many. Unfortunately all the older guys believe what ever JC and Comair says, and most think they should be flying the 737 at comair for Delta. In the end the pay freeze hurt the senior guys the most and I don't feel bad, they will vote for anything JC says to.

 

[Speedtape]

Unfortunately, J.C. and the Comair MEC made a serious political blunder by not embracing the hiring of furloughed Delta Pilots. To throw gas on the fire, J.C. attempted to LEVERAGE their hiring by getting relief in Scope! What a TOOL!

J.C. is no Trade Unionist, but self-serving with an inflated ego! The right thing to do would have been to embrace their hiring with NO, Quid Pro Quo, as the ASA MEC did. It was the right thing to do! For the Comair MEC and the Comair Pilots, it would have been largely an act of GOOD WILL that would have paid dividends down the road! Instead, J.C. attempted to leverage Gain from Woe! What an insult! It was like throwing Nitro (not even regular unleaded) on a fire!

It was even totally appalling to other DCI pilots! ASA probably had a total of 10 Delta pilots even pursue the option, but those that did were very appreciative!

ATTENTION: The New Comair MEC Chairman and MEC

The first order of business should be to pass a resolution to correct this POLITICAL BLUNDER!

It should recognize the error, and also reverse MEC Policy to embrace the hiring of any future furloughed Delta Pilots! It is the right thing to do, and may be the start of repairing the relationship with the Delta MEC and Delta Pilots!

New Comair Leadership and Mr. MEC Chairman, "Tear down that Wall!!!!" Call a Special Meeting, if you have to, SHOW some LEADERSHIP, and pass that resolution! Your membership is counting on you and should hold you accountable if you don't!

With all due respect,

One concerned ASA Pilot

 

[Speedtape]

Call The Meeting!

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

This thread is so GAY! I though high school had ended for me years ago. Delta pilots hate us...we hate Delta pilots...MANAGEMENT WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The longer I stay in this career, the more I realize how stupid pilots really are.

 

[PuffDriver]

This thread is so GAY! I though high school had ended for me years ago. Delta pilots hate us...we hate Delta pilots...MANAGEMENT WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The longer I stay in this career, the more I realize how stupid pilots really are.

This thread is gay, yet here you are as an active participant. Perhaps you can share the reasons for your hatred of Delta pilots. I have outlined some of the reasons for the angst Delta pilots have against the Comair pilots. Personally, I have moved on from it, and would like to see some more Comair pilots join our ranks if they wish. However, there are many over there who tried to circumvent my scope clause, and gain flying on my back. One of them included the topic of this thread. Several others included a group that sued to gain access. Many others are guilty by association, and for leaving this person in power for so long. For those reasons, some Delta pilots just can't seem to over it. I can't blame them either.

 

[DrewBlows]

The first order of business should be to pass a resolution to correct this POLITICAL BLUNDER!

It should recognize the error, and also reverse MEC Policy to embrace the hiring of any future furloughed Delta Pilots! It is the right thing to do, and may be the start of repairing the relationship with the Delta MEC and Delta Pilots!

It's already been done in 2003 or 2004. Someone even posted it on here. I can't find it, but someone who saves everything might be able to.

 

[flyboyike]

ATTENTION: The New Comair MEC Chairman and MEC

The first order of business should be to pass a resolution to correct this POLITICAL BLUNDER!

It should recognize the error, and also reverse MEC Policy to embrace the hiring of any future furloughed Delta Pilots! It is the right thing to do, and may be the start of repairing the relationship with the Delta MEC and Delta Pilots!

I want so much to believe that last part, but, alas, I don't think I do.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Sure, he looked out for his constituents, and sent them all into a tailspin. He was short sighted, and caused disdain for an entire group thanks to his greed during a time of need. He probably could have achieved more had he showed some compassion, just as we did during their unsuccessful strike that gained little and has resulted in the current shrinking of their own airline. His "need for greed" in getting the highest pay for regionals netted us a $1 billion loss at mainline, a mainline management wanting payback eventually (now), and very little SCOPE that has now come back to haunt them. He did a great job ruining Comair. Bye Bye JC Lawson. Why again could you not help our furloughed pilots? It cost too much? Didn't Delta own you at the same time? It cost too much. You idiot. Delta owned ASA at the time too, and they were helping out.


Bye Bye--General Lee

For you, a Delta mainline pilot to be calling anyone else in this industry out on their "greed" is surely the best example I can think of calling out your friends faults and not seeing your own.

Somewhere between holding on to that last contract to the point that DAL crashed and burned, to the massive exodus of pilots taking their million and bankrupting the company leaving the rest of you to rot, I would say for you to even mention greed is the height of hypocrisy.

Of course as a TWA/AA furloughee I know how it works, everyone else wanting something is wrong but my own personal greed is right. I learned that from the APA, a collection of similair master aviatiors like yourselves who believe that your employment by your air carrier is evidence that you are somehow better and more deserving than the rest of the industry.

C'mon man, wake up and smell the coffee. You guys are barely staying afloat and maybe a little humility is a good place to start getting some perspective.

 

[Skippy]

I remember this guy lawson and im sure he remembers me.

we had a meeting to discuss the whole geauxjets thing. He was flapping his gums about how it was a good deal and to get the deal done and if we didnt we were going to put all tsa's pilot's on the street BLAH BALH BLAH. and if it were him he would... blah blah and more blah.

I somehwat politely said," Comair is in bankruptcy, and TSA just made about 34 million profit in a year, why the (Hell) would we accept such a substandard deal. they have the money and if they dont give us what we want, then we dont want it.

It was the best deer in headlights look ever.


he was a tool and only interested in ALPA for his own personal gain-- he may try to get into a VP position or soemthing.

he knows that if he does, along with about 90% of those guys that it's the easiest 150K per year they'll ever make. many of these guys get into the positin for all the wrong reasons.

 

[172driver]

Perhaps you can share the reasons for your hatred of Delta pilots.

I don't hate them or anything but they are, without a doubt, the biggest tools in the business.

 

[9rj9]

How true

 

[PuffDriver]

I don't hate them or anything but they are, without a doubt, the biggest tools in the business.

Well, perhaps you are right, but quite a few on this thread disagree with you. I reckon that's also why there are so many threads regarding the status of hiring at Delta, copared to so few on the status of hiring at Comair.

I am pretty sure my f/o s have a pretty good trip when they fly with me. Suffice to say that they don't go hungry or thirsty. What alse can be said? I trust that you will provide your names to me so that we may ensure that you are never in the box with the other "tools" as you call us. What do you say, tough guys. Care to put your hummingbird posterior up there with your alligator mouth, or are you just talking tough on an internet bitchboard?

RJ pilots, big talkers, but sheeps in wolves clothing. You made your beds, now you must lie in them. Some of us even tried to warn you it was coming. If that makes us tools, so be it.

Where are all of those RJDC supporter rah, rah posts these days, anyway? Seems to have gotten awfully quiet.

He, he, he. The circle of life <cue Elton John>

 

[atrdriver]

He pissed off the ASA MEC when Comair took concessions. ASA was working on a new contract and the Comair and ASA MEC's were pretty tight. Then Comair agreed to concessions and ASA felt betrayed.

The concessions he is talking about were not in BK, they were when CMR promised them those shiny new E-jets.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I remember this guy lawson and im sure he remembers me.

we had a meeting to discuss the whole geauxjets thing. He was flapping his gums about how it was a good deal and to get the deal done and if we didnt we were going to put all tsa's pilot's on the street BLAH BALH BLAH. and if it were him he would... blah blah and more blah.

I somehwat politely said," Comair is in bankruptcy, and TSA just made about 34 million profit in a year, why the (Hell) would we accept such a substandard deal. they have the money and if they dont give us what we want, then we dont want it.

It was the best deer in headlights look ever.


he was a tool and only interested in ALPA for his own personal gain-- he may try to get into a VP position or soemthing.

he knows that if he does, along with about 90% of those guys that it's the easiest 150K per year they'll ever make. many of these guys get into the positin for all the wrong reasons.

...... but then again, maybe he was right..... The G0jet$ thing isn't exactly working well for TSA..... you could have had a single list with all of the pilots represented by ALPA...Instead you have an alter-ego carrier in your yard.... I believe he was right in this case....

 

[JoeMerchant]

The concessions he is talking about were not in BK, they were when CMR promised them those shiny new E-jets.

Hey your not supposed to be reading this stressful stuff.... don't you have a nurse to chase.....:beer:

.... Welcome back.....

 

[PCL_128]

...... but then again, maybe he was right..... The G0jet$ thing isn't exactly working well for TSA..... you could have had a single list with all of the pilots represented by ALPA...Instead you have an alter-ego carrier in your yard.... I believe he was right in this case....

Holy crap, I'm actually gonna have to agree with Joey. In this case, JC was 100% correct, and this is exactly what ALPA's representation department said also. Dario is possibly the worst MEC Chairmen I've ever had the misfortune of coming into contact with, and his massive ego and hot head caused him to make some pretty big mistakes.

 

[Skippy]

...... but then again, maybe he was right..... The G0jet$ thing isn't exactly working well for TSA..... you could have had a single list with all of the pilots represented by ALPA...Instead you have an alter-ego carrier in your yard.... I believe he was right in this case....

not workling out well? so we didnt get 70 seaters big freaking deal. Our tsa brother and sisters and leaving left and right, and the senior people could give a damn about 70 seaters. they are making 90-100 grand flying a 50 seater and they are just fine with that. geauxjets goes to about 10 places and their pilots aren't all that great or happy?

Plus we would have only gotten credit for a maximum of 5 years at TSA? Even you could mathematically deduce that i would be flying a bigger airplane for less money than i was making on a 50 seater? not to mention i would lose a quick week of vacation? So to sum it up, lose vacation, lose pay lose work protection and rules to fly 70 seaters? not in this lifetime.

I voted no, i do it again, and even if it put all of tsa's pilots out of work, i'd still do it again. Becuase you know what? TSA isnt going out of business becuase hulas needs TSA to make moeny to keep both airlines up and running. our local mec was in place for 5 years , we knew every move ( except all the wrongful terminations for a total of 7) tsa would make before they did--- it was a chess match and they were playing checkers---

the vote failed , MISERABLY, we stood our ground and we didnt need lawson and his croanies telling us it was a good deal. and im sure they got flack from duan the train when they reported TSA didnt bite on it.

as we say in the south. "*************************em and feed grits"